Tony Reavis 'Quote Of Day' on Kenyan 26.2 success is BS.

...other side.

NO, Giddy's post is a dumb post. "You" and others sit there and complain about Ryan and Dathan, not me.

I think they're amazing, just not capable of running with the best of the best based off of their ability (genetic factors that limit us all). Training with them won't do it. Salazar tried it when he was like 20, remember that people. Didn't work out so good for him either. I still have the track and field news magazine where he complained about sitting around waiting for his next run.

Cheer up, BRO! wrote:

neanderthal dream wrote:

I refuse to believe the East Africans are dominant from sheer genetics.

5-10 years ago, people were saying the same thing about the 5k/10k. Now we have a several athletes competitive at 5k, and one or two at 10k.

So East Africans no longer dominate the 5000 and 10000? When did this happen?

The jury is still out on that statement. A more accurate statement might be "Kenyans aren't dominating" or "East Africans are not dominating at 1500m". I'd say it is lessening, but the Ethiopian women are dominating the women's distances with Kenya right behind them. The rest of the world isn't close. The 1500m though has not been dominated by E Africans lately.

On the men's side, the E. African domination is not as great at 5000 and 10000 but still pretty strong.

1500 London Men

1 Algeria

2 US

3 Morroco

None of those countries are in East Africa

0 East African countries

1500 Women

1 Burundi

2 Russia

3 Ethiopia

2 of 3 E African

London (Men) 5000m

1 GB

2 Ethiopia

3 Kenya

2 of 3 E Africa

London (Women) 5000

1 Ethiopia

2 Kenya

3 Ethiopia

3 of 3 East Africa

10,000m

1 GB

2 US

3 Ethiopian

1 of 3 E African

10000m (women)

1 Ethiopia

2 Kenya

3 Kenya

3 of 3 E Afican

Moscow

1500m (Women)

1 Sweden

2 US

3 Kenya

1 of 3 E Africa

1500m (Men)

1 Kenya

2 US

3 S Africa

1 of 3 E African

5000 Women

3 of 3 E African

10000 Women

3 of 3 E African

5000m Men

2 of 3 E African

1000m Men

2 of 3 E African

Garbage

FYI, Mo Farah is East African in descent, so if you are arguing about genetics you can't really count him as not being East African.

Here are the top performers in 2013 for the 10,000 meters. Note the predominance of East African runners. Also note that the fastest guy from GB is named Mohamed and that the fastest guy from Canada is named Mohammed.

1 26:51.02 Dejen Gebremeskel ETH

2 26:52.85 Abera Kuma ETH

3 26:57.33 Imane Merga ETH

4 27:12.08 Kenenisa Bekele ETH

5 27:13.12 Bedan Karoki Muchiri KEN

6 27:14.34 Birhan Nebebew ETH

7 27:15.51 Yigrem Demelash ETH

8 27:17.30 Vincent Kiprop Chepkok KEN

9 27:19.97 Teklemariam Medhin ERI

10 27:21.50 Paul Kipngetich Tanui KEN

11 27:21.71 Mohamed Farah GBR

12 27:22.23 Ibrahim Jeilan ETH

13 27:24.39 Galen Rupp USA

14 27:28.11 Atsedu Tsegay ETH

15 27:28.50 Kenneth Kiprop Kipkemoi KEN

16 27:28.71 Emmanuel Kipkemei KEN

17 27:29.21 Nguse Amlosom ERI

18 27:30.51 Edward Waweru KEN

19 27:31.07 Timothy Toroitich UGA

20 27:32.00 Goitom Kifle ERI

21 27:33.13 Leonard Barsoton KEN

22 27:33.38 Karemi Jeremiah Thuku KEN

23 27:35.76 Mohammed Ahmed CAN

24 27:37.55 Ben St.Lawrence AUS

25 27:37.90 Dathan Ritzenhein USA

26 27:38.15 Tariku Bekele ETH

27 27:38.31 Suguru Osako JPN

28 27:39.50 Yuki Sato JPN

29 27:40.44 Patrick Mutunga Mwikya KEN

30 27:40.81 Christopher Thompson GBR

http://www.iaaf.org/records/toplists/middlelong/10000-metres/outdoor/men/senior/2013

Running doesn't take a lot of skill. Your ultimate performance is based almost entirely on pure physiology (genetics). That's why Kimetto could do what he could do. It's why Wheating could make the US Olympic team 4 years after he started running. No one becomes world class in a skill intensive sport (e.g. wrestling or tennis) 3 or 4 years after starting. Hard work over a long period of time can have a bigger payoff in such sports than it can in running. Group training is also a lot more important. You can become a world class runner without having good (or any) training partners. That can't happen with wrestling or tennis.

So, for the genetic deniers, What do you say about sprinting? Aren't there millions upon millions of white youth and youth from other ethnicities who would like to have Bolts money and spot in the limelight? All you have got to do is run 100M!!

Obvious next question, if it's true for sprinters why not long distance? I do think there are genetic outliers across the planet who can beat kenyans but how are they found when they are isolated by comparison to this dense pool of talent in Kenya....and as been alluded to, how do you get them to be kenyan by culture from birth?

The medals for GB in the 5000/10000 are Mo Farah's who was born in Somalia which makes him East African.

The same question can be asked of "sprint genes" as of "distance genes." Which ones are they? Without that answer it's a hypothesis.

HRE wrote:

The same question can be asked of "sprint genes" as of "distance genes." Which ones are they? Without that answer it's a hypothesis.

Here's one for you.

HRE wrote:

The same question can be asked of "sprint genes" as of "distance genes." Which ones are they? Without that answer it's a hypothesis.

How do you feel about global warming?

Ex-athlete wrote:

Running doesn't take a lot of skill. Your ultimate performance is based almost entirely on pure physiology (genetics). That's why Kimetto could do what he could do. It's why Wheating could make the US Olympic team 4 years after he started running. No one becomes world class in a skill intensive sport (e.g. wrestling or tennis) 3 or 4 years after starting. Hard work over a long period of time can have a bigger payoff in such sports than it can in running. Group training is also a lot more important. You can become a world class runner without having good (or any) training partners. That can't happen with wrestling or tennis.

[/quote]

Well, I think you have some good points but are only partially correct.

I agree that you can not do what kimetto did without near perfect genetics. But we don't really know his full story either.

So little is actually known. I find it hard to believe that Mutai saw him hanging around and asked him to train with them out of the blue like I read. I think there might be more to that story then we really know.

Here are a few reasons why the East Africans are so dominant in the Marathon:

1) With running being the most important sport in East Africa other than soccer so many more athletes make a go of it. There is more money available now and a lot more guys chasing it.

2) They train properly working on base first rather than speed and racing first like the US system encourages for young athletes.

3) They are not distracted by girls, parties, technology, McDonalds or anything else that has a negative effect on training. You can say that Hall and Ritz aren't either but they are just two runners at the 2:06 - 2:08 level. The truth is that these two guys have had a great and long running career compared to a lot of the East Africans they have run against. We just compare them against the best. The US simply does not have the depth they have. Not even close.

4) There is no fall back. They can't rely on getting a regular job to get them by. It's either make it running or work for nothing. Most don't make it but there is a lot more incentive to do so than for the Americans. The US genetic equivalent is out there working as a lawyer, banker,doctor, or something else unavailable in Kenya.

5) They are a hero if they make it. In the US only geeks like us really care if an American ever gets close to the world record. People don't care!

6) Their diets are a lot better than ours. They have no choice in the matter.

7) Their training grounds are ideal. A lot of unpaved roads, high altitude, ideal temperatures for training.

8) A lot of the kids run as a mode of transportation. I would be willing to bet Kimetto has been running all of his life just not competitively.

9) Yes, training in large groups with guys at the same level has a huge impact on effective training. Any good coach will tell you that. If you can handle a workout with a guy who just came back from running a sub 2:04 that is all the fuel you need to dominate the next major Marathon you enter.

10) Most of the US has grown up with parents caring for their every need. The pool of athletes that actually have the grit to handle the kind of training needed to compete at that level is VERY limited and not just by genetics. Most US athletes are soft.

It's not hard for me to at least believe that these reasons can account for a 3 minute deficit for the Marathon

That's nice but it doesn't answer anything.

Couldn't help myself wrote:

HRE wrote:

The same question can be asked of "sprint genes" as of "distance genes." Which ones are they? Without that answer it's a hypothesis.

How do you feel about global warming?

I don't. How is that relevant?

xenonscreams wrote:

Missing the point. It's about shutting out everything else entirely and just focusing on training. Something not a lot of Americans are willing to do. Mo Farah also seemed to agree this was a major reason for Kenyan success when he spoke about his own experience training with them:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/othersports/athletics/10361777/Mo-Farah-moving-into-a-house-full-of-Kenyan-runners-changed-my-whole-attitude-to-training-and-racing.html

Mo actually does shut out most other things now and rarely sees his family while he is training. FWIG that is one of the most difficult things for him, but it is clearly working.

Mo stated the Kenyans shut things out- which I never doubted. But his takeaway was diet, rest, no foolish activities & 24-hr discipline. I said the same in an earlier post. Mo's not isolating himself from family. He doesn't need to.

And as I originally said, farther travel & away from family to be part of the training group is 1 thing. But staying away from family to live a few km's away is foolish.

------------------------

My mistake in saying Mo doesn't stay away from his family much (if I really was mistaken). But I'd bet plenty it's because ASal's training group is too far away to commute. I'd bet plenty Mo wouldn't move away from his family, to shack up with Rupp & others.

ttc wrote:

------------------------

...I'd bet plenty Mo wouldn't move away from his family, to shack up with Rupp & others.

He wouldn't move ***only a few km's away***, I meant to say.

HRE wrote:

and more genetic diversity

Less.

just thinking...wait until there is a talented group of kenyan runners that decides they don't want to have kids (and maybe not even tie the knot). LOOK OUT.