Quit crying you lame coach!
At least your kids get a chance at walking on.
Look at most schools that have success. They are either Foreign or out of State.
Wisconsin had success with a Canadian and a Texan.
Try coaching your kids a little better!
Ask the Texas HS coach of the 2 runners he has on your team for some coaching points!
I agree with the OP, although maybe for a more fundamental reason.
I agree that the idea of inter-school competition is (or was) "our best student-athletes against your best student-athletes". That at least makes some kind of sense. It's easier to root for a group of people who have some kind of shared roots, shared background, shared goals, etc, as you.
What I don't understand is how you are still supposed to root for your school when the "student-athletes" are mostly just guns-for-hire brought in from who-knows-where. How can you feel any shared sense of accomplishment? This idea would seem to reach its most mystifying peak in the big football and basketball programs: you are supposed to be rooting for a bunch of clowns who are going to your school because they are being paid to. They are not from the area, they have no interest in the area or school, they look down on the rest of the student body, and they are only using their time at your school as a kind of training camp.
But obviously I'm missing something here, because the glaringly obvious fact it, students DO root for these meatheads with whom they have nothing in common. In fact, they don't just root for them, they look up to them and admire them, and brag about it to their friends when they are so fortunate as to meet one of these gods on campus.
Now obviously XC/Track athletes are a little different, because nobody really cares about them, but still the same principle is in operation.
Gamera wrote:
I agree with the OP, although maybe for a more fundamental reason.
I agree that the idea of inter-school competition is (or was) "our best student-athletes against your best student-athletes". That at least makes some kind of sense. It's easier to root for a group of people who have some kind of shared roots, shared background, shared goals, etc, as you.
What I don't understand is how you are still supposed to root for your school when the "student-athletes" are mostly just guns-for-hire brought in from who-knows-where. How can you feel any shared sense of accomplishment? This idea would seem to reach its most mystifying peak in the big football and basketball programs: you are supposed to be rooting for a bunch of clowns who are going to your school because they are being paid to. They are not from the area, they have no interest in the area or school, they look down on the rest of the student body, and they are only using their time at your school as a kind of training camp.
But obviously I'm missing something here, because the glaringly obvious fact it, students DO root for these meatheads with whom they have nothing in common. In fact, they don't just root for them, they look up to them and admire them, and brag about it to their friends when they are so fortunate as to meet one of these gods on campus.
Now obviously XC/Track athletes are a little different, because nobody really cares about them, but still the same principle is in operation.
The shared sense of accomplishment is that they all came from different places to one place in tporder to be a team and compete. How do you not understand this?
Gamera wrote:
I agree with the OP, although maybe for a more fundamental reason.
I agree that the idea of inter-school competition is (or was) "our best student-athletes against your best student-athletes". That at least makes some kind of sense. It's easier to root for a group of people who have some kind of shared roots, shared background, shared goals, etc, as you.
What I don't understand is how you are still supposed to root for your school when the "student-athletes" are mostly just guns-for-hire brought in from who-knows-where. How can you feel any shared sense of accomplishment? This idea would seem to reach its most mystifying peak in the big football and basketball programs: you are supposed to be rooting for a bunch of clowns who are going to your school because they are being paid to. They are not from the area, they have no interest in the area or school, they look down on the rest of the student body, and they are only using their time at your school as a kind of training camp.
But obviously I'm missing something here, because the glaringly obvious fact it, students DO root for these meatheads with whom they have nothing in common. In fact, they don't just root for them, they look up to them and admire them, and brag about it to their friends when they are so fortunate as to meet one of these gods on campus.
Now obviously XC/Track athletes are a little different, because nobody really cares about them, but still the same principle is in operation.
Those negroes like some of the students: the white girls, they wantz to hang with them all day. ALL DAY
They gots no use for the 135 pound XC runners with the 95 pound bench press max
This ... bingo, we have a winner. EX-runner from OREGON hit it spot-on. The dilution of the state meet with all the divisions has really hurt the level of competition. I think Bill McChesney won 3 in a row large-school XC state meets. Check the results (OSAA has them), he beat some great runners ... heck, he beat some great runners in his own district. Lots of very good guys weren't even qualifying for the state meet.
The state has diluted the product, thus not as much talent and constant losses to Washington in border cross (why UW isn't better in men's XC is another interesting topic).
Wondering in the West wrote:
This ... bingo, we have a winner. EX-runner from OREGON hit it spot-on. The dilution of the state meet with all the divisions has really hurt the level of competition. I think Bill McChesney won 3 in a row large-school XC state meets. Check the results (OSAA has them), he beat some great runners ... heck, he beat some great runners in his own district. Lots of very good guys weren't even qualifying for the state meet.
The state has diluted the product, thus not as much talent and constant losses to Washington in border cross (why UW isn't better in men's XC is another interesting topic).
He beat some great guys at his own high school.
Heisenberg wrote:
Wondering in the West wrote:This ... bingo, we have a winner. EX-runner from OREGON hit it spot-on. The dilution of the state meet with all the divisions has really hurt the level of competition. I think Bill McChesney won 3 in a row large-school XC state meets. Check the results (OSAA has them), he beat some great runners ... heck, he beat some great runners in his own district. Lots of very good guys weren't even qualifying for the state meet.
The state has diluted the product, thus not as much talent and constant losses to Washington in border cross (why UW isn't better in men's XC is another interesting topic).
He beat some great guys at his own high school.
You're not kidding. South Eugene had McChesney, Dirk Lakeman and John Gustafson. All were 4:08 or faster for the mile. They still hold the national HS 4xMile record.
Friend of mine went to South at that time, a JV runner ... he said there were 50-60 sub-5:00 milers in the school at that time. There's an epic photo of Lakeman and McChesney leaning at the line of a district mile race, I believe it was very fast, like the 4:05/4:06 range ... not prep guys running in college fast college Hayward meets, a high school district meet on a high school track.
I was in Eugene for Pre and I found it to be an engaging town. Lots of different types of restaurants, bookshops, antique shops, pre war buildings as well as postwar modern and the best IAAF Diamond League race in North America. What more could you ask for?????
Even the airport is cute and manageable. I found the TSA people there to be among the nicest of that set I have encountered. What was so gross about the city? There always seems to be a dark underside to things I like when I first see them..Please tell me..
Here is the photo of Lakeman and McChesney
What about University of Portland? National caliber D1 team. Portland State races in the same conference as NAU and in the West Region (there is no split in D1 sports other than football, it's all the same level), seems pretty competitive to me. If the purpose of college athletics was to use local athletes, then we would have districts like in high school. College athletics isn't about giving local athletes a chance, it's about putting together a competitive team to win championships. If the Oregon HS runners want a chance at running for UO, then they need to make the effort to train themselves to reach the caliber needed to make the team. You will find this same scenario across the country. No school will willing take in in-state athletes that are slower over fast out-of-state kids.
Th university of Portland is a private school costing ~$40,000.
Portland State did not field a complete team in 2012.
In-State kids can get an inexpensive education and running opportunities at Lane Community College, Umpqua Community College, Portland Comm. College, Clackamas Community College, or at Western Oregon State University or Southern Oregon University. I don't see the problem, other than lazy coaches who won't train the kids properly and won't direct them to schools where they can compete. The problem is not the University of Oregon, the problem is incompetent coaches at the high school level.
Truman Cannister wrote:
In-State kids can get an inexpensive education and running opportunities at Lane Community College, Umpqua Community College, Portland Comm. College, Clackamas Community College, or at Western Oregon State University or Southern Oregon University. I don't see the problem, other than lazy coaches who won't train the kids properly and won't direct them to schools where they can compete. The problem is not the University of Oregon, the problem is incompetent coaches at the high school level.
So if I'm anOregon high school state champ, whose parents and grandparents are paying taxes toward the University of Oregon and all other public schools, you are saying that it is a fair situation for my options to be:
1. Run for Lane Community College or run NAIA at Southern Oregon
2. Pay out-of-sate tuition
3. Pay private school tuition
4. Walk on at Oregon so that I can carry Edward Cheserek'a bag to travel meets.
It is the State of Oregon's obligation to provide a real opportunity for in-state guys to have a meaningful D1 opportunity. Look at Cole Warson. He runs 3:50 for 1500 in HS, walks on at Oregon and has improved little except for his freestyle rap skills. C'mon man!
I agree with you but then again I don't ... A 3:55 freshman depending on his background, is the kind of guy, with the right training, will go a lot faster (4:07) by Mid second year. Are we to scoff at such a time? Oregon is like UTEP was in my day. Filled with out of state and out of country talent.
I was told by UTEP I would sit on the bench and not travel till at least my junior year, if that. I was told the same thing by Villanova and I was running 4:11 mile when I approached them. So I attended a large Midwestern college that really wanted me. There was no shortage of offers but I, fancied training with the best until I was told to look elsewhere.
So if you want to run, the only solution, if you live in Oregon is to go to Washington State? They used to have a fabulous program (actually a few imported fab runners). But why go to a school where you will be a tiny plankton in a sea of whales?
I can't open that photo, it keeps going to a general page... it's probably my computer. I'll try and get it another way ... do you know the first two times of that race? Thanks.
OR HS Coach wrote:
It is the State of Oregon's obligation to provide a real opportunity for in-state guys to have a meaningful D1 opportunity.
So what you are saying is that because you pay taxes, your kid/student deserves the opportunity to be admitted into whatever academic program he/she wants regardless of test scores, that your kid/student deserves to play in the marching band just because he/she likes the tuba, that your kid/student is owed a spot on the football team because he played in high school. You are wrong. I was always told many of those who operate in the Oregon "running world" live in a time warp - this is it on display at it's finest. So let's hypothetically say you can justify this with your "I pay taxes argument." You really want your flag ship school to be the joke of the Pac-12? Beaten by superior Washington and Washington State athletes on a regular basis? When Oregon State does add men, it'll continue to be a long process weeding out pathetic entitled coaches with their pathetic entitled kids...
Pope T-Bag II wrote:
OR HS Coach wrote:It is the State of Oregon's obligation to provide a real opportunity for in-state guys to have a meaningful D1 opportunity.
So what you are saying is that because you pay taxes, your kid/student deserves the opportunity to be admitted into whatever academic program he/she wants regardless of test scores, that your kid/student deserves to play in the marching band just because he/she likes the tuba, that your kid/student is owed a spot on the football team because he played in high school. You are wrong. I was always told many of those who operate in the Oregon "running world" live in a time warp - this is it on display at it's finest. So let's hypothetically say you can justify this with your "I pay taxes argument." You really want your flag ship school to be the joke of the Pac-12? Beaten by superior Washington and Washington State athletes on a regular basis? When Oregon State does add men, it'll continue to be a long process weeding out pathetic entitled coaches with their pathetic entitled kids...
Tou are not hearing me. I'm saying that Cole Watson ran a MF 3:50 in high school and is now relegated to being a free style rapper and trying to make the travel squad. He gets no scholarship money whatsoever. The state of Oregon should provide some opportunity for a 3:50 guy to run D1. THAT is what I'm saying.
If you ran 3:50 or 4:10 in your home state what opportunities would you expect?
You're crazy. Cole Watson does have the opportunity to run for them. He's on the damn team.
Jenkins isn't getting a scholarship (like you said CW isn't), how is he given a bigger opportunity? It's track- run faster and you travel.
If UO had all Oregon kids and wasn't qualifying for NCAAs there would be people on here complaining that the program slipped.whats the solution- limit the squad to x amount of out of staters?
Should all state basketball players in CT be mad because Calhoun recruited Emeka Okafor from TX?
