Imagine if a in-form Ryan Hall had run London this year...

ukathleticscoach wrote:

Overmyhead wrote:

Lol that's Rojo's point. Everyone blew up, and Hall, if running his own race, would've caught a lot of the people who were paying the price of a fast start.

I got his point you missed mine

London can't be that fast a course if you look at all the big name who have run here over the years and run below par. Plus the temperature was warm in the sun

So your point is that London is not a fast course? Hahha. Are you aware that Hall ran a very similar time to the top finisher several years ago??

Hall almost always runs his own race. He's run a mid-low 2:06 in London before. What can you not wrap your head around? It was a very logical - and interesting - point. Obviously Hall is not is peak form nor did he run the race. No one is arguing that.

It's worth noting that there was a 2:06 pacer. Makau dropped back to that pacer momentarily, before crashing more. Ryan would have even had a guy to pace him to a winning PR.

categorically wrote:

Rojo-

I get what you're trying to say - a patient and capable marathoner like Hall could have laid off the pace early and then caught the whole field as they cratered from the crazy early pace.

Two problems -

He would have had to be so zen and crazy that he'd let himself drop back in the THIRD MILE. 2:06 flat is 4:48 pace so a perfectly paced race would put him 20 seconds back in the 3rd mile alone. No way he does that.

He'd have to run alone. Ask yourself - how hard is it to run 2:06? Now ask - how hard is it to run 2:06 completely alone?

The only way this is feasible is if Hall has a set of 2:06 pacers that agrees to run behind the lead group.

If we're thinking about an american who could have won this race if they paced it right when they were in top shape, i would bet on khannouchi or meb. i have a lot of respect for hall's athletic talent but, what nobody mentioned is his head problem - i don't think he has it in him on his best day to win a race like this with the pressure of top competition. however, on his behalf, he had one terrific performance in his life, winning the olympic trials in central park (and beating the other 2 i mentioned!) - but never again, in any marathon, if i'm not mistaken. khalid and meb are both very mentally strong - they are "winners,' able to pull out hard one victories or medals, etc...- and, somehow, it seems to me hall just doesn't have that in him, which is too bad, given his talent!

the typo's must be contagious, i meant "hard won" ... :-)

Right. He had his best at the trials in 07. His London PB is a little better than his Boston 2:04:58. I add 90-100 seconds to that one.

I hope he can get back to 2:06 once more. I am not putting great odd on it.

Sorry, I just don't think I can believe yet that any sub 2:07 male marathon is not juiced. Just can't. I don't believe Kannouchi's or Lopez's were clean, perhaps Jones was and Deke's probably was. If Kannouchi runs 2:05 juiced am I going to believe the slew of 2:05's and 4's and now 3's coming from the Africans? Nope. All juiced. Every last one, including Geb. Sorry, but the Armstrong thing proves that if it's unbelievable, it's unbelievable.

Is Hall's clean? Sorry, not a believer. I suspect I'm not the only one. I say give the record back to Jones or Deke. Are today's runners capable of going sub 2:07? Probably a few are, but none are doing it clean despite the fact they could. Why run a 2:07 clean and get beat by 3 minutes and not feed your family or get any sponsors?

Dirty business.

Hall is not clean. He has admitted that he uses hormone therapy.

Why do you have to imagine an 2006 Ryan Hall in 2013's London race? He was already in 2006's race and was 5th.

On his best days (London/Boston), he's never beat the best marathoners in the world. I just don't think its fair to consider his best day on a terribly-paced WR attempt with much better marathoners.

Keep in mind, in 2008, Hall went with the leaders through half-way. He only started letting people go when he didn't have the engine to respond to the surges.

So, even hypothetically speaking, Ryan blows up the final few miles just like everyone else.

Solid post Bum!

Rubis wrote:

Rojo- I understand your logic, but why go there? Hall hasn't run a good marathon in a while now, and I'm not sure it's fair to him or the other Americans (Hartmann) to hypothesize on Hall pr'ing right now, much less winning a major. No, it wouldn't be totally out of the question, but highly unlikely to materialize. Don't get me wrong, because I like Hall, but I don't see him being the one to break through and legitimately compete with the east Africans.

That's a good and kind assessment of the situation. We may need to wait until Galen Rupp starts marathoning.

With all the crackdown on doping lately and the biological passport and the potential shutdown on the thyroid medication looming on the horizon, I think it will be a very long time until we see sub 2:10 by an American again.

You are nuts. You can't say that shit because there are a bunch of 2:05 marathoners (no tailwind BTW) who "could of won".

Unless you are in the race, you can't wind. Please stop nut hugging the guy.

Using factual data points, Meb have accomplished WAY more than Hall. By that logic, he would of done better than Hall because he shows up on race day. Hall cannot consistently deliver.

End of Story.