Formal Charges Brought Against Lance Armstrong

A synopsis in quites

"In the 15-page charging letter obtained by The Post, USADA made previously unpublicized allegations against Armstrong, alleging it collected blood samples from Armstrong in 2009 and 2010 that were 'fully consistent with blood ma­nipu­la­tion including EPO use and/or blood transfusions.' Armstrong has never tested positive."

"Though the World Anti-Doping Agency places an eight-year statute of limitations on doping allegations, USADA argues in its letter that evidence of banned acts outside of the eight-year limit can be losed to corroborate evidence within the limit, and the statute of limitations can be waived when the alleged violations were fraudulently concealed."

The Justice department also threw out the charges two years ago when, with the same evidence, it was determined that there wasn't enough evidence to even proceed to trial

I applaud usada 100%. The only way to cleanup the sport is to nail the guilty, even if it is a top dog.

Why do so few have faith in track being clean? It has to do with a long history of cover ups, beginning wih Carl Lewis and ending with ___t.

Tri is lame. Give it some time and LV will go the way of LA. Whateverrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr

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Gobi wrote:

I don't know. I just made palak paneer at home, and it was delicious. And healthy. Fvck Lance the Liar. How anybody could have ever honestly believed he was clean when he was beating all the other dopers --- FOR SEVEN YEARS! --- is beyond me. Well, actually, no it's not really. People are ritards and suckers for ad hominem arguments. But he had cancer. So what?! I'm constipated.

You're not putting enough palak in your palak paneer. Or not drinking enough water. And ... no more white rice. Whole grain brown rice!

This is like hearing Barry Sanders took steroids (not saying he did, just an example). Bummer, but does anyone really care any more? What's the point?

jsquire wrote:

By the way, when you work with liars for long enough, you can see through them like a window pane. Accusing the authorities of a personal vendetta for any of a number of silly reasons is pretty much at the top. Armstrong may be completely right in accusing the DOJ and USADA--we'll find out eventually--but I have to say he fits the pattern of a liar.

What do you do that involves so much interaction with liars? I suppose I wouldn't want to be in your shoes ... but I am curious.

I agree with the guy who said "Lance did what virtually everyone in his sport did." That's why I have more sympathy for like dopers from Athletics West than I do someone who is on it now.

I always though the players unions had it wrong - if you are an athlete you should hope for daily testing so you aren't put in a tough spot - do i succeed or do i cheat?

But lance had a choice- he could be a leader for the anti doping movement (like us at letsrun although it's easier to try to take down the top people when you aren't one than to take them down when you are) or cheat.

The thing that drives me most nuts about Lance is his vehement denials. That's just sad.

"The thing that drives me most nuts about Lance is his vehement denials. That's just sad."

Why would Lance wreck his legacy by basically doing the work for his accusers? The bottom line is that people have accused Lance of being a doper before but they haven't been able to make any of it stick.

Just like when they got Marion Jones, Justin Gatlin, and Leshawn Merritt? What about when they got Clemens and Bonds? Or Shawn Merriman? Weren't they the top athletes in their sports? Why not catch someone right now, before the Olympics so that they don't compete instead of taking their medal away 2 years from now and letting the guy who gets silver get the "gold medal." No one wants to see that, not even the guy who finished second.

jsquire wrote:

No Way wrote:I agree with this. I'm not necessarily saying Rupp or Goucher, but there are certainly athletes currently doping who are going to compete in the Olympic this year. If there was a strong case against Lance it would have come out years ago. Wouldn't time and money be better spent on the present and future of sport rather than the past?

I disagree, and for a reason I learned a long time ago in coaching. If you discipline the hell out of your best athletes, the average guys see it and assume it will be far worse for them and they'll always do what they're supposed to do. Ditto here: there is no US Olympian who thinks he'll be let off if USADA/WADA can get Armstrong.

rojo wrote:

The thing that drives me most nuts about Lance is his vehement denials. That's just sad.

The more you talk the less respect I have for Princeton. If you cheated and won 7 TDFs and vehemently denied it for 10+ years...what day would you finally admit you cheated? After the first tour? the 2nd tour? 10 years? There's always been the allegations, at what point did it become sad to you? Once you decide to cheat you become Bill Clinton (deny deny deny). You think its sad...like admitting after 15 years of lying is all of a sudden noble.

If you want to really understand what happened on Wed. with Lance Armstrong, you need to know about the evidence USADA has on Lance. It can be found in the letter USADA sent Lancehttp://a.espncdn.com/pdf/2012/0613/armstrongcharges.pdfThe letter outlining the charges to Lance basically says USADA has numerous teammates who will say he was dirty.If you are too lazy to read it, let me quote the key parts when they list what they have on Lance

The document alleges that Lance was part of a huge conspiracy to commit doping led by Mr. Bruneel, Dr. Celaya, Dr. Del Moral, Dr. Ferrari, and Mr. Marti.

Lance is the only rider who USADA is going after in the group. They went after him and not his teammates because "every other rider contacted by USADA regarding doping in cycling agreed to meet with USADA and to truthfully and fully describe thei involvement idoping andall doping by others of which they were aware" but Lance did not.

As for the # of witnesses, they say it is more than 10 cyclists. They also say only info was used that was based on first hand knowledge.

its rediculous to think Lance could have dominated cycling for 7 years and not be doped!

Now, if it wasn't for the fact that Africans decided to take up running, the USA would have the 5 fastest 5000 meter performers in the world for the past 5 years or so. That's domination. But of course, that's just because USA runners are so bad ass.

What do you think caused his cancer? I heard that he told his doctor everything when he found out he had it. The doctor later retracted his statements saying that he misheard him. Doping/Drugs are a lot more prevalent than a lot of people think.

Another fool who thinks all drugs or cheating systems are created equal.

Old Man Runner wrote:

... Even if he was doping, was he on something THAT MUCH better than what they were on?...

That's the whole problem with cheating, no one knows (or just a few chemist).

If all drugs are the same and they all know everyone is dirty and they all take drugs to even the playing field why don't they all agree be clean so instead of having an even dirty playing field we have an even clean playing field?

At least with clean athletes you can try to relate and be amazed by the accomplishment.

IF you can't relate there is no amazement and therefore no interest to watch the sport.

Cheating leads to disconnect between the spectator and the athlete and/or sport.

I am much more amazed by a single TDF won clean than 7 TDF dirty.

No chance anything will stick. Nothing more than "he said, she said".

What, we can't read? C'mon, rojo, there's NO evidence in that letter. None.

Now, I'm not saying they don't have evidence, and if they ever make it to a hearing, maybe it will come out then.

But don't act like this letter and accusation proves anything. It doesn't. There's absolutely nothing new there...no names...no details.

We've all been through this before. Just let it play out before you rush to say "they finally got him!"

Hicham el Guerrouj was a huge fan of Lance Armstrong especially when he was in Paris and running the gaz de france and ELG's running partner and countryman Adil Kaouch who frequently acted as pacemaker for him was banned from track for using EPO in 2007. This Leads me to believe that ELG was a dirty doper and he was probably getting his PED's from Lance Armstrong

Amidst all the charges, counter-charges, rumors, and speculations about this matter, there are three things I'm actually sure of:

1. Either Armstrong was relatively clean OR drug-testing was a joke for most of the decade he was doing his winning. Pretty much has to be one or the other, no? Neither reflects all that well on the anti-doping agencies.

2. Everybody has an agenda here, with money and prestige on the line, and that includes the USADA. They could still be 100% right, but the USADA is as concerned about their "brand" as Armstrong is about his. The media has a stake in this too - Armstrong and doping charges draws eyeballs. (I almost wrote "sells papers" but nothing does that anymore.)

3. The most important question in the current Armstrong case doesn't actually have anything to do with Armstrong. The most important question is what impact will this case have on anti-doping efforts going forward? Armstrong's legacy, one way or the other, isn't going to impact the 2012 Olympics or 2016 Olympics much at all (to pick two major sets of sporting events). What can impact those events (and others) quite a lot is how drug-testing is done and cases adjudicated. How this case plays out has the potential to influence that. There could be some positives to come out ... okay, poor word choice ... there could be some good things to come out of this for sports as a whole. This case should shine a real bright light on how doping charges are handled by the USADA. Do people get due process? Is the agency, you know, competent? Or are reforms needed to strike a better balance between catching dopers on the one hand and not railroading the innocent on the other? Let's use the Armstrong case to get a better idea about the answers to those questions. And let's look at the testing issue - even taking the USADA's word as gospel on this case, Armstrong seems to have beaten the tests hundreds of times, and admitted dopers have also beaten numerous tests. So what kind of improvements might be made to the testing approach? I mean, fool me once, shame on you, fool me 500 times and maybe we should rethink things, no?

Bottom line: As this case proceeds, I think we should be watching it with a focus on the question of What can we learn from this that will help us do a better and fairer job going forward?

kifle wrote:

fwrr43r3rfds wrote:

I can't speak for Galen Rupp but there is nothing to suggest Kara Goucher has ever doped.

Except that she is Rupp's teammate and her coach once went on record saying "I don't think Americans can compete without taking PED's." Oh, and her coach also belonged to Athletics West. Need I go on?

Let's have a link to that exact quote, eh?

What Salazar said was that he could see that athletes who wanted to be the best would always look for an edge. That some would go over the line, and that some would go right up to the line.