Lukas Verzbicas DNF's triathalon debut

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whyohmy wrote:

junior tri is to senior tri as high school running is to professional running

it's a big jump.

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Finally someone who gets it.

poo pants wrote:

Running site. Please, talk about running. Please, do not talk about tri.

What if you only want to talk about the running leg of a triathlon? What about a guy who has accomplished some great things as a pure runner (Lukas V) sucking balls in a triathlon?

Nope.

poo pants wrote:

Running site. Please, talk about running. Please, do not talk about tri.

So you took the time to click on this thread and type a response just to say that you're not interested in the topic? That seems really stupid, but perhaps you can explain your reasoning.

dumb dumb dumb wrote:

poo pants wrote:

Running site. Please, talk about running. Please, do not talk about tri.

So you took the time to click on this thread and type a response just to say that you're not interested in the topic? That seems really stupid, but perhaps you can explain your reasoning.

+1

I was curious, then I was bored, then I wanted it to stop. So I asked that we stop talking about it. I'm glad that we are making headway.

i also will note that LV has immense potential. for him to split a 19 on the swim and a 59 on the bike with at most 2 months of crash course swim and bike training truly is remarkable. i really don't like the fact that US is paying for a foreigner to train but there is little doubt that he is going to be one of the best once he gets some solid training under his belt.

I thought he had a ton of tri training and that's what made him so good in HS and Jr World then so bad in college.

I think there are a few things to note here:

1) As I mentioned earlier in this thread, yes, this was an "Elite/Pro" race. That said, it was a Continental Cup race, which is the lowest level of competition of three within the "Elite/Pro" circuit. There were a FEW top guys in this race, but nothing remotely close to what he would (or will) experience if/when he moves up the ranks. Continental Cups < World Cups < World Championship Series.

2) I heard (have not confirmed if it's true) that the swim was with the current for the majority of the swim. If this is the case, that significantly helps weaker swimmers stay in contention. If that is in fact the case, this would have helped LV stay with the top swimmers.

3) Regardless of all of the things stated here, it was impressive that LV was in a position to be in the top 5 at ANY point on the run. It doesn't mean that he will be winning at the top level any time soon (or possibly ever), but it does show potential. I think he has a long way to go before he can be competitive on the top level, but this was a solid first outing, DNF or not.

i call bs on the swim being with the current. if it was, then the first guys would have been a lot faster than 18s -- more like sub 15 or even faster if it's like the nyc swim. regardless, he only lost a minute to the fastest swimmer. that's impressive in and of itself because there's no way that he was doing swim workouts this fall like a professional itu guy was.

he also only lost just over a minute to the fastest bike and actually had one of the fastest bike splits, which is even more impressive given the fact that he came out of the water slightly behind the front guys and had to have used a lot of energy catching up that the front guys did not have to use. this also was his first 10k ever.

also, yes, the non-americans in the race were B or C level (or D level) but the americans were A level. huerta, collington, collins and fretta all are in the top 10 (and top 5 for several of them) in the US. LV hung with all of them on the swim, outbiked all of them and then outran all of them for the portion of the run he did. that is damn impressive.

here are the results:

http://www.triathlon.org/results/results/2012_la_paz_patco_triathlon_pan_american_championships/7258/

The results for last year aren't working for some reason, but if you look at 2 years ago, the swim times for the top guys were in the 20-21 range:

http://www.triathlon.org/results/results/2010_la_paz_itu_triathlon_pan_american_cup/4530/

Like I said, it might not be accurate that the swim was with the current, but La Paz is not typically a fast swim. You are correct that only losing 1 minute to the top guys is impressive, but that is just about impossible to overcome at the WCS level. For example, Chris Foster loses a minute at WCS events on the swim, bikes his ass off and catches the leaders (sometimes) and then isn't able to run to his abilities. He is one of the only people strong enough to catch the bike pack on the circuit. I don't know if LV has that ability (yet). Now, this was his first pro race. Of course he'll improve and will likely get up to that level. Just trying to frame it up as he sits CURRENTLY.

Finally, to say that we had the US's "A level" racing is a bit misleading, IMO. Huerta is certainly in the conversation, but Charbot, Shoemaker, Kemper, Bennett, etc. are what I consider our "A level" - these guys that raced are more on the B level (still very good, but not generally considered a threat on the WCS level).

All of that said, I tried to frame things up to show how I was actually impressed with LV's performance. If it didn't come off like that, I apologize - I think higher of LV's abilities as a triathlete after this race than I did before.

here are the rankings from last year:

http://www.triathlon.org/results/rankings/

huerta and fretta both were top 5 americans like i said above. i didn't say that EVERY top american was there but this was a fairly strong group of americans LV hung with. then again, american men suck right now so being the tallest midget might not mean that much in the grand scheme of things.

The top

whyohmy wrote:

i call bs on the swim being with the current. if it was, then the first guys would have been a lot faster than 18s -- more like sub 15 or even faster if it's like the nyc swim. regardless, he only lost a minute to the fastest swimmer. that's impressive in and of itself because there's no way that he was doing swim workouts this fall like a professional itu guy was.

The top ITU guys and verzbicas likely had pretty similar fall training and build ups for this race, with verzbicas probably going into it with a better build up. Most guys will finish their season late fall, take time off, and are just starting to get back into "real" training.

I am a tool posting on Letsrun wrote:

LUKAS WILL LOOK LIKE HE"S 30 BEFORE HE GETS MARRIED. IF HE HAD AS MANY GUTS AS ME OR RUPP HE WOULD WIN BACK HIS DIGNITY

dude!!!!!

STFU!

he's a stud and always will be

<3 lv

cyclonic wrote:

The top

whyohmy wrote:

i call bs on the swim being with the current. if it was, then the first guys would have been a lot faster than 18s -- more like sub 15 or even faster if it's like the nyc swim. regardless, he only lost a minute to the fastest swimmer. that's impressive in and of itself because there's no way that he was doing swim workouts this fall like a professional itu guy was.

The top ITU guys and verzbicas likely had pretty similar fall training and build ups for this race, with verzbicas probably going into it with a better build up. Most guys will finish their season late fall, take time off, and are just starting to get back into "real" training.

that's completely ridiculous. LV was on the oregon xc team. do you actually think that he was doing the same swim and bike workouts as professional itu guys when he was basically a full-time xc runner? where exactly do you think he was working his hard bike workouts into his week while also doing all of oregon's hard running workouts? the itu circuit doesn't end in september.

There was a Competitor Radio interview with Lukas a few weeks ago where he talked about his plans to do this race. If I recall correctly he mentioned that the swim was with the current.

For the poster who asked why this matters since everyone swims the same route, it effectively makes the swim portion shorter, favoring the athletes who are comparatively weak swimmers but comparatively strong on the bike or run. The swim has historically been Lukas' weakest event and obviously he's a pretty good runner.

That's essentially what I was getting after. My point is not that LV did compete well against some top guys, it's that he competed well against some good pros, but they aren't at the level of the best.

I know you get it - I was just trying to point it out to those that don't really understand how the ITU system, and triathlon in general, works.

the bottom line is that that was a damn impressive debut for someone with very limited training. i never imagined that he would be that good this soon.