No change of pace??? How bout the 56 in the middle of the World Champs 5K?
Most of these guys, out of blocks, are 48.5-50.0. Geb and Bekele probably 49.5ish. As Malmo mentioned, Jim Ryun likely had 46ish (ish = high) skills. 1:44.3 880y at Terre Haute. I remember an article about Joe Falcon right before he won Bislett in 3:49 cranking some 23 second 200's (likely flying 200's).
.malmo wrote:
Lenny Leonard wrote:Webb ran 47 in high school. No doubt he could have run 46.xx in his 3:30 days.
I highly doubt it. You clearly havn't been around many runners.
The only one I can think of who probably could have hit 46-point is Ryun. Of those who could break 50, I'd say there's a very hard ceiling at 48-flat.
I suspect that any miler who ever run sub 1:43.00 in the 800 could run under 47:00 in the 400. That would include Cram and Elliot and arguably (primarily an 800 meter guy) Joaquim Cruz.
Idiot Letsrun Poster wrote:
fghrunner wrote:
jenny barringer would fall in that category on the women's side...sub 4 1500/world champ with a great kick, but I can't run under 2:02 in the 8
So you are Jenny Barringer?
Only on F*cking letsrun would someone decide it was OK to take an unprovoked dig at our American world champion.
This website is unbelievable.
Nobody took a dig at Jenny Barringer. Calm down.
A. Hipster wrote:
Well there you have it wrote:I wouldn't worry too much about their poor speed. As long as they have good foot speed, that's what counts (or is it leg speed? I can never keep those straight).
Foot and leg speed are the same thing in the context of running. Try moving your feet faster than your legs or vice versa and tell me how it goes for you.
Ummm...Wow. Is there any activity upstairs at all? Any?
I think in "The Self-Coached Runner II" Len Hilton's coach said that he couldn't break 52 for 440yds, however he ran 3:55.9 for the mile & 3:36.4 for 1500M.
I think we are all forgetting Prefontaine didn't have too much speed and could solo a sub-4 mile
Landy wasn't far under 4 (3:58), but his best 800 was in the 1:51s. He has to be one of the slowest 800 runners ever to have broken 4.
The only one I can think of who probably could have hit 46-point is Ryun.[/quote]
Did he ever run a 400m?
Most likely Cushing Murray
Pifer ran 3:38.0x and I doubt he could run very fast for 400m.
someone had to do it wrote:
Elliott
Keino
Liquori
Bayi
Walker
Straub
Ovett
Cram
Scott
Maree
El Guerrouj
Lagat
Gebrselassie
Komen
Holman
Webb
Most of these guys had at least 48 quarter mile speed, simply becasue they were also 1:45 half guys. You rarely know what type of sprint speed a world class miler has becasue they never run an open quarter once they become a miler. Filbert and Lagat were not known for raw speed, but Filbert has run his first lap in 50 point and Lagat has closed in 50 point, which suggest they could probably run an open quarter in at least 48. I would guess most of the guys on your list were capable of running a 47x quarter.
German Fernandez? 3:55i, NCAA outdoor 1500m champion, but his 800 PR is 1:52. Very doubtful that he could break 51 in an open race.
Reality check223 wrote:
His 10k pr isn't that fast though either. With that in mind, do you think that he actual has a non-poor 400m time? Is the 800m really a good indicator for speed?
I am not sure that his non-existent 10000 pr is an indication of anything other than the fact that he has never run a 10000 on the track.
As far as his 400 m speed, yeah I can confirm that he is no speed demon. I agree that it is unlikely that he could break 51 and there is no way he could dip under 50.
A cross country 10k is not even close to a track time. Compare the XC vs. track times of someone like Korir or Chelanga and it's an enormous difference.
Freelove wrote:
A cross country 10k is not even close to a track time. Compare the XC vs. track times of someone like Korir or Chelanga and it's an enormous difference.
It is if you run at Chile Pepper
I dont believe Rich Kenah ever broke 50 in the 400. .
Freelove wrote:
A cross country 10k is not even close to a track time. Compare the XC vs. track times of someone like Korir or Chelanga and it's an enormous difference.
You could at least have an estimate based on who he finished behind and after, no?
Danny K! wrote:
I agree that they could probably all run sub 50. Geb + Bekele have both run sub 50 so elite milers should do it easily. The one guy from that list who is probably the slowest is Daniel Komen. He had no kick whatsoever and never really showed any power or change of pace, he was just an absolutely effortless machine at 60 second pace.
It would be interesting to see how many sub 3:50 milers couldn't break 50 in the 400.
Geb ran 3:31 indoors (#2 all-time) and Bekele's 1500m PR is 3:32. I'd say they are elite milers.
It is a well-known fact that Geb could bust out a 45.x on any day of the week.
Most of the milers listed in this thread have been 'great' or 'excellent' milers. Not 'good' milers. There's probably not a single 'great' miler that couldn't break 50, but I'd be willing to bet there are hundreds of 'good' milers that don't have anything better than 52-54 in their legs.
Assuming these rough standards:
Legendary: sub 3:48
Great: sub 3:51
Excellent: sub 3:55
Good: sub 4:00
Having been a 'good' miler myself and barely clocking a 51 in my prime (speed-wise) and doubtful of my ability to go under or near 55 when I was out of my 'speed' prime but in my 'endurance' prime (but still a good miler), I think I can speak from experience.
I bet you'd find absolutely incredible 400m range in guys who are 3:55 - 4:00 types. And I bet most would fall in the 51-53 range.