Silas is the Ku Klux Klan
Silas is the Ku Klux Klan
Renato Canova wrote:
Big leg (but small brain), you are another stupid person speaking about something you don't know. People of antidoping in Kenya are not Kenyans. The responsible is called Paul Scott, and is Canadian. The doctors come from South Africa. The samples are sent every week in the Barcelona's lab. Tests are not less than 15 every week. I think there is no Country in the World having so many tests out of competition as Kenya (also because there are no Countries in the World with so many athletes in the whereabout system).
So, please, stop arguing something stupid, only because you don't know where it's possible to arrive with training only, if you have top talent a top motivation.
I respect your thoughts and your position, but it doesn't help Kenya's claim to be totally drug free, when the National Federation "forgets" to order in Drug tests for the National Trials, and then broadcasts it to the World the weekend before competition!?
My understanding (and I don't claim to know as much as you) was that ALL athletes in the top 20 of each event are subject to random out of competition testing by WADA through the IAAF. That is obviously going to cost a lot, and being as there are so many Kenyan athletes in the top 20 of middle & distance events, they get tested more (by WADA) than athletes from other countries. But how often would athlete A in the top 20 be tested over a year?
Most European nations' federations test ALL their athletes regularly ON TOP of the minimum requirement through the IAAF. Again, this is expensive and so nations like Kenya, Jamaica (as I believe to be the case) cannot afford to submit their athletes (who are also in Kenya's case, more likely to be spread around the world training) to the same level of testing.
So, as I see it, a top UK or French athlete will be tested a lot more than a top Kenyan athlete, as they are undergoing testing from the IAAF (the same number of times as Kenyan athletes) AND even more so from their National bodies!
Is this not the case?
I am wondering this myself.
Read "The Milers" and have a look at Kip Keino's fastest 1500 (at Mexico City) and his fastest mile. While people are aware of the 1500, they aren't usually aware that Keino's best mile was at altitude. Like sea level may gain running the 800, it shouldn't be surprising that runners with "high altitude" genetics would at least be close to their best at altitude.
Of course, the fact AK didn't organise any control because they moved too late and didn't know the equipment had to come from South Africa (and AK had to pay...) is not a good image for the Federation, consequentely for Kenyan athletes.
You have reason : for example, all the young Kenyans winning Youth WCh (like Koshenga in 800m in 1:44.08) NEVER had any doping control, till the Championships.
However, the fact EVERYBODY was able to improve in Lille, where they had the first control in their life, clearly shows that noone among young and strong runners uses anything.
The real risk is another. For example, many times Kenyan athletes suffer some disturb in their stomach (not a real typhus, but something like this, due to bacterias in the water. Don't forget in altitude it's very difficult to boil water, especially with their system based on fire from charcoal, and when water is about 60° for them is enough), and their solution is to use some "traditional" medicine based on trees, that nobody knows.
I asked many athletes to use only syntetic products from a normal pharmacy, and to give me some substance "natural" they use, for analyzing in a lab.
However, what I say is the general mentality of Kenyans and Ethiopians is very far from the idea of any support, on the contrary of European and American.
When I started coaching Italian, from the beginning (1965) everybody looked at some pharmacological aid (not important if legal or not, under the point of view of the mentality it's the same thing). Same thing in all Europe, and in America (US and Canada). Every day in my e-mail I receive messages for buying thru internet any kind of pharmacs, and this from Canadian companies...
People speaking about diffused doping in Africa, really don't know anything about the African life.
Thanks for your input Coach Canova! Love reading the stuff you write! Because of you I believe many Kenyans are clean and doing it right. Also the physiological reasons you provide at least counter the doubters of the Kenyans.
Renato Canova wrote:
(also because there are no Countries in the World with so many athletes in the whereabout system).
Is that near the Degoba System?
This is the school of thought and people that Canova origins from:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Francesco_Conconi
Kenyans might have a natural mind, but for sure the italians dont.
Renato Canova wrote:
Yes, I have an opinion. And also, I am able to see WHO USES EPO and WHO DOESN'T USE from their training.
For example, if I see athletes doing very tough workouts on track in lactic area for long time, maintaining their shape for long periods, and in the middle there is no tough aerobic training, THESE ATHLETES HAVE AN AEROBIC SUPPORT WITH EPO or something similar, because this is not possible under the physiological point of view.
In Ifrane, there are Maroccan training on track very, very hard. Some of them goes for only 40' jogging between these trainings (of course I don't say the name, but I know, exactly as I knew about Boulami and Ramzi), and this is a clear signal of doping, because too much lactic training reduces the Aerobic Threshold, and nobody can maintain the shape for long time.
Some other goes for long and fast run : these athletes are clean (some name : Gharib and El Guerrouj, for example, that have all the record in the circuits in Ifrane from 17 to 34 km).
I can also have some opinion about the use of HGH. But I don't want to make public my opinion, because is ONLY AN OPINION, and, unlike many posters of LR, I don't want to accuse anybody on the base of opinions.
But, when we speak about percentage of top athletes doped for events and Countries, I can say that Kenya and Ethiopia are very clean Countries because is not in the mentality of top runners to use any support during their training and their competitions (and I continue to say that with them blood doping doesn't work, also if many can think I'm or stupid or a cheater : but I know what I'm speaking about). In any case, it's true that longer is the event, less doping we can find, because blood doping can support the INTENSITY, not the ENDURANCE under the Threshold.
It is great for the sport to have this kind of input.
For me, the red flag was when the top 10 average in the world suddenly dropped by 10 seconds in the 5000 in 1996+ over 1994-, a year or so after EPO was introduced in masse in cycling.
EPO suddenly caused the bar to be raised, some non-EPO users might have responded with better performances...
stats..
http://www.alltime-athletics.com/m_5000ok.htmthose really interested can sort this entire file by date, then see the drastic jump in average time through out the years.
1 12:37.35 Kenenisa Bekele ETH 13.06.82 1 Hengelo 31.05.2004
2 12:39.36 Haile Gebrselassie ETH 18.04.73 1 Helsinki 13.06.1998
3 12:39.74 Daniel Komen KEN 17.05.76 1 Bruxelles 22.08.1997
4 12:40.18 Kenenisa Bekele ETH 13.06.82 1 Saint-Denis 01.07.2005
5 12:41.86 Haile Gebrselassie ETH 18.04.73 1 Zürich 13.08.1997
6 12:44.39 Haile Gebrselassie ETH 18.04.73 1 Zürich 16.08.1995
7 12:44.90 Daniel Komen KEN 17.05.76 2 Zürich 13.08.1997
8 12:45.09 Daniel Komen KEN 17.05.76 1 Zürich 14.08.1996
9 12:46.53 Eliud Kipchoge KEN 05.11.84 1 Roma 02.07.2004
10 12:47.04 Sileshi Sihine ETH 29.01.83 2 Roma 02.07.2004
11 12:48.09 Kenenisa Bekele ETH 13.06.82 1 Bruxelles 25.08.2006
12 12:48.25 Kenenisa Bekele ETH 13.06.82 1 Zürich 18.08.2006
13 12:48.66 Issac Songok KEN 25.04.84 2 Zürich 18.08.2006
14 12:48.81 Stephen Cherono KEN 15.10.82 1 Ostrava 12.06.2003
15 12:48.98 Daniel Komen KEN 17.05.76 1 Roma 05.06.1997
16 12:49.28 Brahim Lahlafi MAR 15.04.68 1 Bruxelles 25.08.2000
17 12:49.53 Kenenisa Bekele ETH 13.06.82 1 Zaragoza 28.07.2007
18 12:49.64 Haile Gebrselassie ETH 18.04.73 1 Zürich 11.08.1999
19 12:49.71 Mohammed Mourhit BEL 10.10.70 2 Bruxelles 25.08.2000
20 12:49.87 Paul Tergat KEN 17.06.69 3 Zürich 13.08.1997
21 12:50.16 Sileshi Sihine ETH 29.01.83 1 Bruxelles 14.09.2007
22 12:50.18 Kenenisa Bekele ETH 13.06.82 1 Zürich 29.08.2008
23 12:50.22 Eliud Kipchoge KEN 05.11.84 1 Bruxelles 26.08.2005
24 12:50.24 Hicham El Guerrouj MAR 14.09.74 2 Ostrava 12.06.2003
25 12:50.25 Abderrahim Goumri MAR 21.05.76 2 Bruxelles 26.08.2005
26 12:50.38 Eliud Kipchoge KEN 05.11.84 2 Bruxelles 14.09.2007
27 12:50.55 Moses Masai KEN 01.06.86 1 Berlin 01.06.2008
28 12:50.72 Moses Kipsiro UGA 02.09.86 3 Bruxelles 14.09.2007
29 12:50.80 Salah Hissou MAR 16.01.72 1 Roma 05.06.1996
30 12:50.86 Ali Saïdi-Sief ALG 15.03.78 1 Roma 30.06.2000
31 12:51.00 Joseph Ebuya KEN 20.06.87 4 Bruxelles 14.09.2007
32 12:51.21 Eliud Kipchoge KEN 05.11.84 1 Ad-Dawhah 14.05.2010
33 12:51.32 Kenenisa Bekele ETH 13.06.82 1 Saint-Denis 08.07.2006
34 12:51.44 Kenenisa Bekele ETH 13.06.82 1 Roma 14.07.2006
35 12:51.45 Vincent Chepkok KEN 05.07.88 2 Ad-Dawhah 14.05.2010
36 12:51.60 Daniel Komen KEN 17.05.76 1 Stockholm 08.07.1996
37 12:51.95 Thomas Longosiwa KEN 14.01.82 5 Bruxelles 14.09.2007
38 12:51.98 Saif Saeed Shaheen QAT 15.10.82 2 Roma 14.07.2006
39 12:52.26 Kenenisa Bekele ETH 13.06.82 1 Oslo 27.06.2003
40 12:52.29 Issac Songok KEN 25.04.84 1 Roma 08.07.2005
41 12:52.32 Kenenisa Bekele ETH 13.06.82 1 Zürich 28.08.2009
42 12:52.33 Sammy Kipketer KEN 29.09.81 2 Oslo 27.06.2003
43 12:52.38 Daniel Komen KEN 17.05.76 1 Milano 07.09.1996
44 12:52.39 Salah Hissou MAR 16.01.72 2 Roma 05.06.1997
44 12:52.39 Issac Songok KEN 25.04.84 3 Roma 14.07.2006
46 12:52.40 Edwin Cheruiyot Soi KEN 03.03.86 2 Saint-Denis 08.07.2006
47 12:52.45 Tariku Bekele ETH 21.01.87 2 Berlin 01.06.2008
48 12:52.53 Salah Hissou MAR 16.01.72 1 Milano 09.06.1999
49 12:52.61 Eliud Kipchoge KEN 05.11.84 3 Oslo 27.06.2003
50 12:52.70 Haile Gebrselassie ETH 18.04.73 2 Zürich 14.08.1996
51 12:52.76 Eliud Kipchoge KEN 05.11.84 2 Roma 08.07.2005
52 12:52.79 Eliud Kipchoge KEN 05.11.84 1 Saint-Denis 31.08.2003
53 12:52.80 Gebre-egziabher Gebremariam ETH 10.09.84 3 Roma 08.07.2005
54 12:52.83 Hicham El Guerrouj MAR 14.09.74 2 Saint-Denis 31.08.2003
55 12:52.99 Abraham Chebii KEN 23.12.79 4 Oslo 27.06.2003
56 12:53.12 Kenenisa Bekele ETH 13.06.82 3 Saint-Denis 31.08.2003
57 12:53.19 Haile Gebrselassie ETH 18.04.73 1 Berlin 01.09.1995
58 12:53.37 Abraham Chebii KEN 23.12.79 1 Saint-Denis 04.07.2003
59 12:53.41 Khalid Boulami MAR 07.08.69 4 Zürich 13.08.1997
60 12:53.45 Salah Hissou MAR 16.01.72 2 Zürich 11.08.1999
61 12:53.46 Mark Kiptoo KEN 21.06.76 1 Stockholm 06.08.2010
62 12:53.56 Dejene Gebremeskel ETH 24.11.89 2 Stockholm 06.08.2010
63 12:53.58 Imane Merga ETH 15.10.88 3 Stockholm 06.08.2010
64 12:53.66 Augustine Choge KEN 21.01.87 4 Roma 08.07.2005
65 12:53.72 Philip Mosima KEN 02.01.77 2 Roma 05.06.1996
66 12:53.81 Tariku Bekele ETH 21.01.87 4 Roma 14.07.2006
66 12:53.81 Imane Merga ETH 15.10.88 1 Oslo 04.06.2010
68 12:53.84 Assefa Mezgebu ETH 19.06.78 1 Bruxelles 28.08.1998
69 12:53.92 Haile Gebrselassie ETH 18.04.73 1 Oslo 30.06.1999
70 12:53.97 Tariku Bekele ETH 21.01.87 2 Oslo 04.06.2010
71 12:54.07 Sammy Kipketer KEN 29.09.81 2 Roma 30.06.2000
71 12:54.07 John Kibowen KEN 21.04.69 4 Saint-Denis 31.08.2003
73 12:54.08 Haile Gebrselassie ETH 18.04.73 1 Zürich 12.08.1998
74 12:54.12 Bernard Lagat USA 12.12.74 3 Oslo 04.06.2010
75 12:54.15 Dejene Berhanu ETH 12.12.80 3 Roma 02.07.2004
76 12:54.19 Abreham Cherkos ETH 23.09.89 5 Roma 14.07.2006
77 12:54.21 Imane Merga ETH 15.10.88 1 Roma 26.05.2011
78 12:54.36 Haile Gebrselassie ETH 18.04.73 2 Saint-Denis 04.07.2003
78 12:54.36 Eliud Kipchoge KEN 05.11.84 4 Stockholm 06.08.2010
80 12:54.46 Moses Mosop KEN 17.07.85 3 Saint-Denis 08.07.2006
81 12:54.58 James Kwalia KEN 12.06.84 5 Oslo 27.06.2003
82 12:54.59 Isiah Koech KEN 19.12.93 2 Roma 26.05.2011
83 12:54.60 Haile Gebrselassie ETH 18.04.73 1 Nürnberg 13.06.1997
84 12:54.70 Dieter Baumann GER 09.02.65 5 Zürich 13.08.1997
84 12:54.70 Moses Kipsiro UGA 02.09.86 3 Berlin 01.06.2008
86 12:54.72 Paul Tergat KEN 17.06.69 3 Zürich 14.08.1996
87 12:54.82 Daniel Komen KEN 17.05.76 2 Bruxelles 28.08.1998
88 12:54.83 Salah Hissou MAR 16.01.72 2 Milano 07.09.1996
89 12:54.85 Moses Kiptanui KEN 01.10.70 3 Roma 05.06.1996
90 12:54.94 Eliud Kipchoge KEN 05.11.84 6 Roma 14.07.2006
91 12:54.99 Benjamin Limo KEN 23.08.74 3 Saint-Denis 04.07.2003
92 12:55.03 Sammy Kipketer KEN 29.09.81 1 Oslo 28.07.2000
92 12:55.03 Edwin Cheruiyot Soi KEN 03.03.86 2 Zürich 28.08.2009
92 12:55.03 Tariku Bekele ETH 21.01.87 1 Zürich 19.08.2010
95 12:55.06 Lucas Rotich KEN 16.04.90 4 Oslo 04.06.2010
96 12:55.14 Haile Gebrselassie ETH 18.04.73 1 Berlin 26.08.1997
97 12:55.16 Daniel Komen KEN 17.05.76 1 Roma 07.07.1999
98 12:55.18 Daniel Komen KEN 17.05.76 2 Milano 09.06.1999
98 12:55.18 Paul Tergat KEN 17.06.69 3 Roma 30.06.2000
100 12:55.26 Benjamin Limo KEN 23.08.74 3 Bruxelles 26.08.2005
101 12:55.29 Vincent Chepkok KEN 05.07.88 3 Roma 26.05.2011
102 12:55.30 Moses Kiptanui KEN 01.10.70 1 Roma 08.06.1995
103 12:55.31 Kenenisa Bekele ETH 13.06.82 1 Bruxelles 04.09.2009
104 12:55.37 Paul Tergat KEN 17.06.69 2 Roma 07.07.1999
105 12:55.39 Salah Hissou MAR 16.01.72 3 Roma 07.07.1999
106 12:55.51 Haile Gebrselassie ETH 18.04.73 1 London 30.07.2004
107 12:55.52 Eliud Kipchoge KEN 05.11.84 4 Saint-Denis 04.07.2003
107 12:55.52 Hicham Bellani MAR 15.09.79 7 Roma 14.07.2006
109 12:55.53 Chris Solinsky USA 05.12.84 5 Stockholm 06.08.2010
110 12:55.55 Kenenisa Bekele ETH 13.06.82 1 London 22.07.2005
111 12:55.58 Abebe Dinkesa Negera ETH 06.03.84 2 Saint-Denis 01.07.2005
112 12:55.59 Gebre-egziabher Gebremariam ETH 10.09.84 4 Roma 02.07.2004
113 12:55.63 Mark Bett KEN 22.12.76 2 Oslo 28.07.2000
114 12:55.66 Imane Merga ETH 15.10.88 2 Bruxelles 04.09.2009
115 12:55.69 Tariku Bekele ETH 21.01.87 4 Saint-Denis 08.07.2006
116 12:55.72 Moses Masai KEN 01.06.86 1 Barcelona 19.07.2008
117 12:55.76 Khalid Boulami MAR 07.08.69 4 Zürich 14.08.1996
117 12:55.76 Craig Mottram AUS 18.06.80 2 London 30.07.2004
119 12:55.79 Issac Songok KEN 25.04.84 1 Oslo 02.06.2006
120 12:55.82 Benjamin Limo KEN 23.08.74 3 Oslo 28.07.2000
121 12:55.85 Salah Hissou MAR 16.01.72 1 Roma 12.07.2002
121 12:55.85 Boniface Songok KEN 25.12.80 4 Bruxelles 26.08.2005
123 12:55.86 Benjamin Limo KEN 23.08.74 3 Zürich 11.08.1999
124 12:55.89 Dejene Gebremeskel ETH 24.11.89 4 Roma 26.05.2011
125 12:55.93 Salah Hissou MAR 16.01.72 1 Paris 28.06.1996
126 12:55.94 Thomas Nyariki KEN 27.09.71 1 Stockholm 07.07.1997
127 12:55.95 Josphat Kiprono Menjo KEN 20.08.79 1 Turku 18.08.2010
128 12:55.98 Vincent Chepkok KEN 05.07.88 3 Bruxelles 04.09.2009
129 12:56.13 Craig Mottram AUS 18.06.80 2 London 22.07.2005
130 12:56.15 Daniel Komen KEN 17.05.76 2 Roma 08.06.1995
131 12:56.18 Brahim Lahlafi MAR 15.04.68 4 Oslo 28.07.2000
132 12:56.23 Kenenisa Bekele ETH 13.06.82 1 Roma 10.07.2009
133 12:56.24 Dejene Berhanu ETH 12.12.80 5 Roma 08.07.2005
134 12:56.27 Albert Chepkurui KEN 29.07.81 6 Oslo 27.06.2003
134 12:56.27 Dathan Ritzenhein USA 30.12.82 3 Zürich 28.08.2009
136 12:56.29 Paul Koech KEN 25.06.69 6 Zürich 13.08.1997
137 12:56.32 Vincent Chepkok KEN 05.07.88 5 Oslo 04.06.2010
138 12:56.34 Imane Merga ETH 15.10.88 2 Zürich 19.08.2010
139 12:56.41 Augustine Choge KEN 21.01.87 1 Melbourne 20.03.2006
140 12:56.45 Chris Solinsky USA 05.12.84 3 Zürich 19.08.2010
141 12:56.46 Eliud Kipchoge KEN 05.11.84 1 Milano 25.06.2009
142 12:56.50 Luke Kipkosgei KEN 27.11.75 5 Oslo 28.07.2000
143 12:56.52 Haile Gebrselassie ETH 18.04.73 1 Berlin 01.09.1998
144 12:56.53 Mohamed Ali Abdosh ETH 28.08.87 4 Bruxelles 04.09.2009
145 12:56.55 Benjamin Limo KEN 23.08.74 4 Roma 07.07.1999
146 12:56.59 Paul Koech KEN 25.06.69 2 Berlin 26.08.1997
147 12:56.60 Mohammed Mourhit BEL 10.10.70 6 Oslo 28.07.2000
148 12:56.66 Thomas Nyariki KEN 27.09.71 1 Bratislava 10.06.1997
148 12:56.66 Chris Solinsky USA 05.12.84 6 Oslo 04.06.2010
150 12:56.72 Richard Limo KEN 18.11.80 1 Zürich 17.08.2001
151 12:56.96 Haile Gebrselassie ETH 18.04.73 1 Hengelo 04.06.1994
152 12:56.99 Sammy Kipketer KEN 29.09.81 1 Zürich 16.08.2002
153 12:57.01 Augustine Choge KEN 21.01.87 1 Berlin 12.09.2004
154 12:57.05 Mulugeta Wondimu ETH 28.02.85 2 Berlin 12.09.2004
155 12:57.11 Boniface Kiprop UGA 12.10.85 1 Stockholm 25.07.2006
156 12:57.14 Abraham Chebii KEN 23.12.79 1 Roma 11.07.2003
157 12:57.23 Worku Bikila ETH 06.05.68 3 Roma 08.06.1995
157 12:57.23 Haile Gebrselassie ETH 18.04.73 1 London 08.08.2003
159 12:57.24 Benjamin Limo KEN 23.08.74 2 Roma 12.07.2002
160 12:57.25 Alemayehu Bezabeh ESP 22.09.86 7 Oslo 04.06.2010
161 12:57.32 Luke Kipkosgei KEN 27.11.75 2 Berlin 01.09.1998
162 12:57.34 Kenenisa Bekele ETH 13.06.82 2 Roma 11.07.2003
163 12:57.43 Josphat Bett KEN 12.06.90 5 Bruxelles 04.09.2009
164 12:57.50 Benjamin Limo KEN 23.08.74 1 Oslo 28.06.2002
165 12:57.52 Richard Limo KEN 18.11.80 3 Roma 12.07.2002
166 12:57.56 Abreham Cherkos ETH 23.09.89 4 Berlin 01.06.2008
167 12:57.60 Boniface Kiprop UGA 12.10.85 5 Saint-Denis 08.07.2006
168 12:57.62 Mark Kiptoo KEN 21.06.76 2 Roma 10.07.2009
169 12:57.69 Eliud Kipchoge KEN 05.11.84 3 Zürich 18.08.2006
170 12:57.73 Salah Hissou MAR 16.01.72 1 Saint-Denis 04.06.1998
171 12:57.74 Abraham Chebii KEN 23.12.79 5 Saint-Denis 31.08.2003
171 12:57.74 Kenenisa Bekele ETH 13.06.82 1 Berlin 03.09.2006
173 12:57.77 Vincent Chepkok KEN 05.07.88 4 Zürich 19.08.2010
174 12:57.79 David Chelule KEN 07.07.77 5 Roma 07.07.1999
175 12:57.82 Kenenisa Bekele ETH 13.06.82 1 Beijing 23.08.2008
176 12:57.83 Mathew Kisorio KEN 16.05.89 8 Oslo 04.06.2010
177 12:57.86 Richard Limo KEN 18.11.80 2 Zürich 16.08.2002
177 12:57.86 Sileshi Sihine ETH 29.01.83 5 Roma 26.05.2011
179 12:57.89 Abderrahim Goumri MAR 21.05.76 2 Stockholm 25.07.2006
180 12:57.90 Luke Kipkosgei KEN 27.11.75 2 Zürich 12.08.1998
180 12:57.90 Sammy Kipketer KEN 29.09.81 2 Oslo 28.06.2002
182 12:57.94 Mohammed Farah GBR 23.03.83 5 Zürich 19.08.2010
183 12:57.95 Haile Gebrselassie ETH 18.04.73 1 Zürich 11.08.2000
184 12:58.03 Joseph Ebuya KEN 20.06.87 6 Saint-Denis 08.07.2006
185 12:58.08 Gebre-egziabher Gebremariam ETH 10.09.84 6 Saint-Denis 31.08.2003
186 12:58.10 Sammy Kipketer KEN 29.09.81 2 Oslo 30.06.1999
187 12:58.13 Salah Hissou MAR 16.01.72 1 Sevilla 28.08.1999
188 12:58.15 Richard Limo KEN 18.11.80 6 Roma 07.07.1999
189 12:58.16 Joseph Ebuya KEN 20.06.87 6 Bruxelles 04.09.2009
190 12:58.17 Vincent Chepkok KEN 05.07.88 4 Zürich 28.08.2009
190 12:58.17 Vincent Chepkok KEN 05.07.88 6 Stockholm 06.08.2010
192 12:58.19 Craig Mottram AUS 18.06.80 2 Melbourne 20.03.2006
193 12:58.21 Bob Kennedy USA 18.08.70 5 Zürich 14.08.1996
193 12:58.21 Paul Tergat KEN 17.06.69 2 Zürich 11.08.2000
195 12:58.22 Kenenisa Bekele ETH 13.06.82 2 Oslo 02.06.2006
196 12:58.24 Leonard Komon KEN 10.01.88 3 Roma 10.07.2009
197 12:58.29 Benjamin Limo KEN 23.08.74 8 Roma 14.07.2006
198 12:58.31 Assefa Mezgebu ETH 19.06.78 3 Zürich 12.08.1998
199 12:58.39 Saïd Aouita MAR 02.11.59 1 Roma 22.07.1987
200 12:58.41 Sileshi Sihine ETH 29.01.83 1 Huelva 13.06.2008
201 12:58.43 Boniface Kiprop UGA 12.10.85 6 Roma 08.07.2005
202 12:58.45 Mohammed Mourhit BEL 10.10.70 7 Roma 07.07.1999
203 12:58.49 Yusuf Biwott KEN 12.11.86 6 Bruxelles 14.09.2007
204 12:58.51 Bekana Daba ETH 29.07.88 9 Oslo 04.06.2010
205 12:58.56 Matt Tegenkamp USA 19.01.82 7 Bruxelles 04.09.2009
206 12:58.57 Hailu Mekonnen ETH 04.04.80 1 Roma 29.06.2001
207 12:58.58 Moukhled Al-Outaibi KSA 30.04.80 1rA Heusden-Zolder 23.07.2005
207 12:58.58 Mike Kigen KEN 15.01.86 3 Oslo 02.06.2006
209 12:58.60 Gebre-egziabher Gebremariam ETH 10.09.84 3 Saint-Denis 01.07.2005
210 12:58.61 John Kibowen KEN 21.04.69 3 Oslo 28.06.2002
211 12:58.63 Sammy Kipketer KEN 29.09.81 3 Zürich 11.08.2000
212 12:58.64 Daniel Komen KEN 17.05.76 1 Stockholm 05.08.1998
213 12:58.66 Benjamin Limo KEN 23.08.74 7 Roma 08.07.2005
214 12:58.70 Richard Limo KEN 18.11.80 4 Roma 30.06.2000
214 12:58.70 Lucas Rotich KEN 16.04.90 4 Roma 10.07.2009
216 12:58.72 Benjamin Limo KEN 23.08.74 2 Sevilla 28.08.1999
216 12:58.72 Mark Bett KEN 22.12.76 2 Zürich 17.08.2001
218 12:58.74 Paul Tergat KEN 17.06.69 4 Zürich 12.08.1998
219 12:58.75 Bob Kennedy USA 18.08.70 2 Stockholm 08.07.1996
220 12:58.76 Abderrahim Goumri MAR 21.05.76 7 Saint-Denis 08.07.2006
221 12:58.80 Mohammed Mourhit BEL 10.10.70 3 Sevilla 28.08.1999
222 12:58.83 Ismaïl Sghyr FRA 16.03.72 7 Oslo 28.07.2000
223 12:58.91 Edwin Cheruiyot Soi KEN 03.03.86 6 Zürich 19.08.2010
224 12:58.93 Tariku Bekele ETH 21.01.87 1 Eugene 03.07.2010
225 12:58.94 Paul Bitok KEN 26.06.70 4 Oslo 28.06.2002
225 12:58.94 Kenenisa Bekele ETH 13.06.82 1 Hengelo 24.05.2008
227 12:58.95 Thomas Nyariki KEN 27.09.71 3 Berlin 26.08.1997
228 12:58.98 Abraham Chebii KEN 23.12.79 3 Zürich 16.08.2002
229 12:58.99 Ismaïl Sghyr MAR 16.03.72 6 Zürich 14.08.1996
230 12:59.03 Tariku Bekele ETH 21.01.87 4 Saint-Denis 01.07.2005
231 12:59.04 Abderrahim Goumri MAR 21.05.76 3 London 30.07.2004
232 12:59.08 Jonas Cheruiyot KEN 11.01.84 3 Stockholm 25.07.2006
233 12:59.09 Brahim Lahlafi MAR 15.04.68 4 Sevilla 28.08.1999
234 12:59.13 Sammy Kipketer KEN 29.09.81 2 London 08.08.2003
234 12:59.13 Vincent Chepkok KEN 05.07.88 1 Lausanne 30.06.2011
236 12:59.15 Salah Hissou MAR 16.01.72 5 Saint-Denis 04.07.2003
236 12:59.15 Leonard Komon KEN 10.01.88 10 Oslo 04.06.2010
236 12:59.15 Edwin Cheruiyot Soi KEN 03.03.86 1 Hengelo 29.05.2011
239 12:59.19 Thomas Nyariki KEN 27.09.71 4 Roma 05.06.1996
239 12:59.19 Boniface Kiprop UGA 12.10.85 5 Saint-Denis 01.07.2005
241 12:59.22 Bernard Lagat USA 12.12.74 1 London 28.07.2006
241 12:59.22 Bekana Daba ETH 29.07.88 5 Roma 10.07.2009
243 12:59.27 Zersenay Tadese ERI 08.02.82 9 Roma 14.07.2006
243 12:59.27 Moses Kipsiro UGA 02.09.86 5 Zürich 28.08.2009
245 12:59.28 Vincent Chepkok KEN 05.07.88 2 Hengelo 29.05.2011
246 12:59.29 Bernard Lagat USA 12.12.74 1 Berlin 04.09.2005
247 12:59.30 Dejene Gebremeskel ETH 24.11.89 2 Eugene 03.07.2010
248 12:59.34 Sammy Kipketer KEN 29.09.81 1 Athínai 11.06.2001
249 12:59.37 Richard Limo KEN 18.11.80 5 Roma 02.07.2004
250 12:59.39 Million Wolde ETH 17.03.79 5 Zürich 12.08.1998
251 12:59.45 Edwin Cheruiyot Soi KEN 03.03.86 4 Oslo 02.06.2006
252 12:59.47 Assefa Mezgebu ETH 19.06.78 3 Berlin 01.09.1998
252 12:59.47 Imane Merga ETH 15.10.88 2 Lausanne 30.06.2011
254 12:59.48 Moses Kipsiro UGA 02.09.86 2 Zürich 29.08.2008
255 12:59.53 Benjamin Limo KEN 23.08.74 2 Roma 29.06.2001
255 12:59.53 Abreham Cherkos ETH 23.09.89 5 Oslo 02.06.2006
257 12:59.54 Benjamin Limo KEN 23.08.74 1 Berlin 07.09.1999
258 12:59.56 Mohamed Ali Abdosh ETH 28.08.87 1 Hengelo 01.06.2009
259 12:59.60 Benjamin Limo KEN 23.08.74 2 Athínai 11.06.2001
260 12:59.63 Abraham Chebii KEN 23.12.79 7 Bruxelles 14.09.2007
261 12:59.67 Hicham Bellani MAR 15.09.79 2rA Heusden-Zolder 23.07.2005
262 12:59.70 Augustine Choge KEN 21.01.87 10 Roma 14.07.2006
263 12:59.71 Eliud Kipchoge KEN 05.11.84 3 Lausanne 30.06.2011
264 12:59.72 Jacob Chesari KEN 06.04.84 1rA Heusden-Zolder 10.07.2010
265 12:59.74 John Kibowen KEN 21.04.69 3 London 08.08.2003
266 12:59.75 Richard Limo KEN 18.11.80 2 Berlin 07.09.1999
266 12:59.75 Imane Merga ETH 15.10.88 6 Roma 10.07.2009
268 12:59.79 Musir Salem Jawher BRN 13.06.78 6 Saint-Denis 01.07.2005
269 12:59.90 Sammy Kipketer KEN 29.09.81 3 Berlin 07.09.1999
269 12:59.90 Albert Chepkurui KEN 29.07.81 8 Oslo 28.07.2000
271 12:59.91 Mark Kiptoo KEN 21.06.76 6 Roma 26.05.2011
272 12:59.94 Sammy Kipketer KEN 29.09.81 3 Roma 29.06.2001
273 12:59.95 Khalid Boulami MAR 07.08.69 1 Hechtel 19.07.1997
274 12:59.97 John Kibowen KEN 21.04.69 3 Athínai 11.06.2001
Renato Canova never had any connection with Conconi. When in Italy there was the self-transfusion (that ended in 1985), I was the national responsible of Decathlon. The head coach of Italy at that times continued to ask me "when do you start a plan for supporting decathlonists with some steroid", and, because I always refused, this was the reason because I went back as teacher in my school from 1st September 1985 till the end of 1986. After that period, I came back to Italian Federation as responsible for middle and long distance with women, and from 1988 I became co-responsible (with Luciano Gigliotti) of men and women.
I never believed in doping, because if you find moral values in athletics (and the main stimula must be the fact you can measure yourself), you go to cheat yourself, and for me this is a stupid position.
So, when I was the Italian responsible, several times I had to face requests of some support for training and performances, and I had to explain why I didn't want any kind of support from outside, legal or not.
But, when I went Kenya, I never received any similar request, and I had athletes bettering WR that are in the history of Athletics.
This is the main difference between societies (as Europe and America) living inside a "pharmacological Word", where we are pushed to use every type of pharmac through spots in TV and in newspapers, also when useless or damageous (the industry of pharmacs is the 3rd business in the World...), and societies (as Africa) where the only medicines are for surviving, and the other things are natural.
The fact is that the most part of people speaking about African athletes never were in Africa, never met some athlete in his original ambience, never spoke with some of them coming from villages on the mountains, and think to know everything after reading some stupid report, very far from the reality.
Wow, that's fast, times Kenyan trials are usually slow, but not becauase of altitude, but they are usually sit and kick races. As a few others have said, some guys are capable of running fast at altitude and don't necessarily run much faster at sea level. - Either that or Silas is in world record shape right now.
Response to Canova
Renato Canova wrote:
Of course, the fact AK didn't organise any control because they moved too late and didn't know the equipment had to come from South Africa (and AK had to pay...) is not a good image for the Federation, consequentely for Kenyan athletes.
You have reason : for example, all the young Kenyans winning Youth WCh (like Koshenga in 800m in 1:44.08) NEVER had any doping control, till the Championships.
However, the fact EVERYBODY was able to improve in Lille, where they had the first control in their life, clearly shows that noone among young and strong runners uses anything.
Thanks for your response.
I'm not sure if I fully understood what you were saying above, which might have been lost in translation.
You seem to be suggesting that "EVERYBODY" (I take it you mean athletes from all nations competing?) at the Youth WChamps, despite improving their times, couldn't have taken anything as this was their first drug test!?
Is that what you meant? Personally I doubt many 16 year olds would be on much, but some unscrupulous coaches/federations (and I'm not saying Kenyan) could have had their athletes taking PEDS a month ago in training, and they's still be clean at the Youth Champs.
Also, I don't think drugs is the main issue/problem with Kenyans at the World Youth Champs. Kenya is clearly the greatest nation in terms of depth of talent in the 8 & 1500, but I would bet my house that Koshenga (and others) are not 16. Regardless of the pitfalls young athletes face in Kenya with passports, etc, NO 16 year old (especially one with a receding hair line!) is capable of 1:44.0.
Simply not possible. 18 or 19 yes, 16, No!
I argued earlier in the thread that Komen should get the third spot over Chepseba since he beat him in the trials.
Well Komen bombed at WC's and Chepseba just won Zurich.
Kenya could have swept the 1500.
I still don't like subjective selection systems but it's obvious that Chepseba would have been the better pick.
Daniel K. Komen is a bit like THE Daniel Komen. He seems to be far from the form in which he ran 3:48 in the mile in Eugene and 3:29 flat in Rome.
Komen is a time trialist, not a competitor.
Renato Canova wrote:
Yes, I have an opinion. And also, I am able to see WHO USES EPO and WHO DOESN'T USE from their training.
For example, if I see athletes doing very tough workouts on track in lactic area for long time, maintaining their shape for long periods, and in the middle there is no tough aerobic training, THESE ATHLETES HAVE AN AEROBIC SUPPORT WITH EPO or something similar, because this is not possible under the physiological point of view.
In Ifrane, there are Maroccan training on track very, very hard. Some of them goes for only 40' jogging between these trainings (of course I don't say the name, but I know, exactly as I knew about Boulami and Ramzi), and this is a clear signal of doping, because too much lactic training reduces the Aerobic Threshold, and nobody can maintain the shape for long time.
Some other goes for long and fast run : these athletes are clean (some name : Gharib and El Guerrouj, for example, that have all the record in the circuits in Ifrane from 17 to 34 km).
I can also have some opinion about the use of HGH. But I don't want to make public my opinion, because is ONLY AN OPINION, and, unlike many posters of LR, I don't want to accuse anybody on the base of opinions.
But, when we speak about percentage of top athletes doped for events and Countries, I can say that Kenya and Ethiopia are very clean Countries because is not in the mentality of top runners to use any support during their training and their competitions (and I continue to say that with them blood doping doesn't work, also if many can think I'm or stupid or a cheater : but I know what I'm speaking about). In any case, it's true that longer is the event, less doping we can find, because blood doping can support the INTENSITY, not the ENDURANCE under the Threshold.
Since you can tell who is doping sir, do you have an opinion on Jakob? Also I appreciate your insight about how Kenya and Ethiopia are very clean countries. Indeed they are the cleanest.