Chocolate Milk vs. Gatorade/Powerade/etc.

Rod Munch wrote:

Then explain to me how people provided milk and milk proteins experience significant increases in skeletal muscle protein synthesis over a few hours either in a post-absorptive or post-exercise state? Also, I would appreciate an explanation for how milk makes bones weaker.

Again..... 70% of the world's population can't digest it, period. But since you asked, the sulfur contained in animal proteins, particularly dairy, make the ph of our blood more acidic. The process by which those levels are brought back to normal require a leaching of calcium from our kidneys and our bones. Countries that consume the most dairy per capita? U.S.A., England, Finland. Countries with the highest rates of osteoporosis? U.S.A., England, Finland. Countries with the lowest dairy consumption? Asian countries.... who... wait for it... have the lowest rates of osteoporosis. Another good resource to check out is the Harvard Nurses Study that followed something like 80,000 people for a decade or two and found that those who consumed the most dairy calcium had the greatest bone loss.. the ones who consumed the most plant-based calcium maintained or increased bone density. Pretty compelling evidence, if you ask me.

Unbiased industry influence wrote:

By the way, commercial pre-made chocolate milk is usually made with grade B milk. What's grade B? The discolored, puss filled stuff that's a result of over doping the cows to produce as much milk as possible. If you believe in clean sport, you should believe in clean agriculture too. Avoid the nasty milk.

I'm not sure if you're a liar or an ignoramus, but that statement is completely false. Grade B milk is used for powdered products and stuff like cheese and butter. It is not bottled for drinking, even with flavoring added.

Rod Munch wrote:

Then explain to me how people provided milk and milk proteins experience significant increases in skeletal muscle protein synthesis over a few hours either in a post-absorptive or post-exercise state? Also, I would appreciate an explanation for how milk makes bones weaker.

http://www.ajcn.org/content/85/4/1031.shorthttp://gradworks.umi.com/34/20/3420193.htmlhttp://jap.physiology.org/content/107/3/987.shorthttp://jap.physiology.org/content/106/4/1394.full

THANK YOU THANK YOU THANK YOU for making specific claims and posting links! You elevate the quality of discourse!

bootsie wrote:

But since you asked, the sulfur contained in animal proteins, particularly dairy, make the ph of our blood more acidic. The process by which those levels are brought back to normal require a leaching of calcium from our kidneys and our bones.

I would like to see some double-blind, placebo-controlled research data to support that claim. This sounds like a claim coming from the camp of Colin Campbell, who apparently hasn't used PubMed (or even Google Scholar) to look at current research in about 15 years. It's known now that the increase in calcium excretion from increased dietary protein comes NOT from the bones, but from increased dietary calcium. And, increased acidic load really has no effect on bone health.

The anti-milk crowd is so wildly passionate. I love it.

I can digest milk fine, and I feel like it's a convenient and beneficial post-run drink. I only drink it after workouts or long runs (immediately thereafter, optimally having an actual meal within an hour). After a 20-mile run, I do not give a shit if it is flavored with sugar or high fructose corn syrup. Your body is not rejecting high fructose corn syrup when it is depleted. It's certainly more beneficial for me to drink 300 calories of chocolate milk rather than 0 calories of water immediately following a hard effort.

at the end of the day your body is breaking down. your body uses protein to build back up optimally. so give it protein. simple but effective explanation here

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=drk4emkXC3A

Oh... and for the person who claimed that milk is a great hydrator.... Whey is a diuretic!!!!

"Oh... and for the person who claimed that milk is a great hydrator.... Whey is a diuretic!!!!"

This has to be the dumbest thing I've read on LRC all week. Congrats, I guess.

Geez Lance.... how's that blood pressure? It's too early for that much shouting. Sorry that Harvard University studies don't qualify as "science" in your book. That being the case, we're probably not going to have a productive discourse. I'll leave you with this: we stop drinking our mother's milk when we are infants. Why do we then switch species and start drinking the milk that is designed for baby cows? Especially when most humans can't even digest it?! Stupid. It's a free country though.... keep on doing it if that's what floats your boat. I'll stick to my coconut water and clif bars.

sweet merciful jebus wrote:

"Oh... and for the person who claimed that milk is a great hydrator.... Whey is a diuretic!!!!"

This has to be the dumbest thing I've read on LRC all week. Congrats, I guess.

Oh come ON. I mean.... I've always had lofty aspirations of achieving that kind of accolade, but I hardly think I'm worthy. After all, there's *another* "hottest female distance runner* thread going on RIGHT NOW! I can't even hold those poster's jock straps when it comes to waxing uneloquent.

Drink whatever you enjoy.

"milk is particularly rich in three electrolytes"

www.livestrong.com

*doubled over laughing*..... livestrong...... Never mind that the American Dairy Council paid Lanced Strongarm big bucks to be their spokesman......

bootsie wrote:

I'll leave you with this: we stop drinking our mother's milk when we are infants. Why do we then switch species and start drinking the milk that is designed for baby cows? Especially when most humans can't even digest it?! Stupid. It's a free country though.... keep on doing it if that's what floats your boat. I'll stick to my coconut water and clif bars.

I haven't really seen you advise avoiding eating animal flesh. . .how is drinking cow's milk any different than eating its skeletal muscle? We drink milk because it has sustaining nutrients, as does animal flesh.

Rod Munch wrote:

I haven't really seen you advise avoiding eating animal flesh. . .how is drinking cow's milk any different than eating its skeletal muscle? We drink milk because it has sustaining nutrients, as does animal flesh.

B/c this discussion is about Gatorade and chocolate milk.... not eating meat. I'm vegan, so you can probably guess where I stand on that issue, too....

I cited a Harvard study that concluded that consuming dairy does not, as advertised, make your bones "stronger," and in fact has the opposite effect over time. And a diet high in proteins (like whey) DO have a diuretic effect. Americans stupidly believe that high protein diets are healthy. They aren't.

Combining points one and two and your "natural" argument... the milk that comes from cows and the milk we buy in our stores are two totally different things. It's pasteurized to kill all the germs that would make us sick if we drank it raw (yeah, yeah... raw milk argument.. it's a tiny % and shrinking), and then they take out all the butterfat before putting it back in in smaller increments. If we drank the actual levels of butterfat that come in regular milk, our cholesterol levels would go through the roof. And then we have all the subclinical traces of antibiotics that are found in milk, due to the ubiquitous use of them on factory farms. Ever wonder why antibiotics aren't working as well on humans as they used to? At least partially (though of course, not solely) due to the fact that most of us consume traces of them every day in our food. The growth hormones and steroids are just the icing on the cake, and who knows what the long term effects of those are.... or we could discuss the fact that about 50% of all cattle feed is chicken shit.... and chickens are fed the prion materials from dead cows. A convenient run around of the laws that prohibited the feeding of prion materials directly to cows due to the CJD/mad cow scare of the 90's. Think it's safe now? We'll see in another decade. And continuing on with the "ease" through which we can get milk.... do you have any idea how much forest land has been razed in the last 3-4 decades to make room for grazing pastures, particularly in South America?! The amount of land, water, and fuel required to produce milk is astonishing. Then the cows produce an ungodly amount of methane and shit, both of which are major environmental hazards. In YOUR mind... it's easy... just go to the store and pick up a gallon (which is now WAY more expensive than it used to be... get used to that). But that's the American way. Pay no attention to the man behind the curtain.

On to the clif bar issue. Could you please show me where you got the information regarding where Clif bar sources its B-12? I support that company precisely because of the ethical and environmental care they put into their products. Some good facts at the bottom of the page, here.

And even if that is the case, they double and triple audit all of their suppliers, all of whom must meet USDA standards... i.e... just because they're from China doesn't mean they are horrible. That's like saying that all Americans are gun-toting dingbats who love jesus and sarah palin... it's an over-generalized impression.

And an energy bar isn't a "supplement," by reasonable standards. Supplements are pills, powders, liquids, etc. whose purpose is to specifically provide some sort of nutritional element in a primary form, not secondary "food" form. Fortification of foods is another subject, and you're right that most cereals are fortified synthetically. I eat oatmeal with fruit every single damned morning. I'm that boring.

Chocolate milk is bullshit. Go with organic fat free skim milk. Preferably find a vendor that provides good tasting organic ffs milk. There's a certain Trading Joe grocery store that has good tasting milk, the best in town, while the rest of the organic tastes kinda rotten. Yes, I force a begrudging smile and tolerate the inanity of the certain Trading Joe grocery store because it's where I get my milk. Gotta have the milk. Here's a strategy I employ. Get some organic fat free chocolate frozen yogurt. Have fat free organic chocolate milk shakes. Colder than chocolate milk. Less fat. Less artificial taste destroying sugar, and also organic. Also a bit rich and delicious, for when drinking plain milk is too hard. Sometimes after a really good workout, just plain organic ffs milk tastes like a vanilla milkshake. Minimalistic beauty. Other times, I'm a fatty chubby and I need some chocolate milkshakes. Anyways, gatorade and powerade is useful as a performance and recovery drink, but not as a lifestyle drink or regular part of your diet, because it's basically (beyond the sugar and electrolytes) water and citric acid, and in the long run that's not good for your body alkalinity. You could start having stomach acid, heartburn, just irregularities. As far as a protein beverage goes though, also most commercial drinks are crap because they have fake sugar and fake flavors. Pick up some whey protein (tastes good, and, btw, sourced from milk, so know your foundation) or soy protein (ugh) and mix it in some nut (walnut, hazelnut, almond) or oat or soy milk. The rule is a protein type doesn't taste good mixed in its own juice, e.g. whey protein doesn't mix well in milk (ew!) because it's sourced from it and you get an oversaturated frankenstein tasting drink, soy protein which doesn't taste all so wonderful to begin with in soy milk, etc. Mix in some ice and fruit if desired. Keep it alkaline

the main ingredient in clif bars is brown rice syrup... so natural!

It only took 12 years but the Bots finally found this thread.