Most generals don't start at reception, thus, they don't go to real basic training. Most come from West Point. Don't get me started on that.
Most generals don't start at reception, thus, they don't go to real basic training. Most come from West Point. Don't get me started on that.
honorable discharge wrote:
dirty south wrote:People who are attracted to the military usually are not rocket scientists.
Interesting. Considering I went to the US Amry with a double major in Math and Physics. What is your major left-winged hippie puke or pussy pany republican?
He could have one of those majors where they know the definition of "usually".
i think what many people on this thread are forgetting is that this thread is mostly bashing ENLISTED, not OFFICERS. obviously officers are college-educated at the least. we are bashing the lack of standards to simply join the army, not become an officer.
my own father graduated from West Point, and went on to get a masters at Texas. he's still one of the smartest people I know, however, the vast majority of enlisted men he led were insanely illiterate.
the irony here is that it is harder to get into college then join the US military. when in reality, i'd feel much safer having a college kid owning a gun rather than a high school drop-out who barely passed the GED and enlisted in the army.
random a hole wrote:
honorable discharge wrote:Interesting. Considering I went to the US Amry with a double major in Math and Physics. What is your major left-winged hippie puke or pussy pany republican?
He could have one of those majors where they know the definition of "usually".
LOL
Seems like a lot of folks are pretty hot to bash on the military. Not my style.
Just as a matter of statistics, if you look at the age, education, and anticipated pay of an average E1, you'll find that they compare pretty favorably to civilians at the same level. You can't reasonably expect every young man (or woman) who signs up after HS graduation to have top grades and SATs, a college scholarship lined up, etc.
My own military test story is a little funny (I think it was the ASVAB, back in the 80s--my boss was reservist who suggested I test). I don't remember the score, but the recruiter said, "Son, we're going to have to make you a general. You're a damn genius, but you don't know how to do anything at all!" Pretty darned good prediction--I've got a couple of degrees in history, but I'd be the first guy on survivor to be eaten.
And Gen. Jim Kimsey - founder of AOL.
I'm a physician in the Navy and have had the privilege of meeting and working with both officers and enlisted members who blow my abilities out of the water, in various arenas. Like another poster said, the low pass rate is not a comment on the military, but on the state of education in the United States. Generally speaking, I don't get into debates. I would feel uncomfortable and like a hypocrite to presume to discuss a subject with which I am not thoroughly and intimately familiar. Those who are displaying such a negative attitude towards those who serve them come across to me as completely ignorant regarding the subject that they disparage.
I hope the folks who criticize the intellectual capacity of the armed services may consider actually educating themselves on the subject before running their ignorant fingers across an anonymous message board. I do acknowledge that it is really, really cool to criticize the military.
awe wrote:
I retired after 20 years and it does disgust me..
My nephew couldn't write, read or pass any ASVAB test..when we began to invade various countries and needed the help, the recruiters called on him..Oh, they had changed their minds...
I used to see guys kicked out because they failed one event of a PT test (thus failing the test) they'd get 3 chances after 3 counsellings and if they still failed (one guy by just 15 seconds on a 2-mile run) they would kick em out!
I'll bet that dosen't happen anymore.
That's a very ignorant view. There have been plenty of times in history where they did not doing anything remotely close to what you're suggesting. When they don't need people for wars, they can be more selective...when they do need them, they are less selective. It's no different at ANY place of work. Just as in regular jobs, the worse the economy is, the more selective the employer can be, the better the economy is, the less selective.
Well put, Mrr82. It's so easy to talk out of the back of one's arse - another to actually educate one's self about something before blindly tickling these keys.
it was interesting to read in outliers some of the reasons why Chinese kids take to math so easily, namely, that in Mandarin(?) the words for the numbers make things much easier and quicker to do math: eleven (11) is ten one, twelve is ten two, twenty is two tens, thirty is three tens, etc. So, they don't have to learn new words for the numbers and the math is quicker and easier. Hence, they learn faster. It's more than just that but Gladwell points out that the kids with languages like that learn to count higher, faster, and do math better than kids with languages like ours that have different words.
A 98 on the ASVAB does not mean you scored better than 98% of test takers. I certainly did not score better than 138% of test takers.
Um .. Ever hear of Cannon Fodder?
ASVAB scores wrote:
A 98 on the ASVAB does not mean you scored better than 98% of test takers. I certainly did not score better than 138% of test takers.
What are you even talking about? 138? You might have gotten your GT score confused with your AFQT score. GT of 138 is rock solid, mine was like 140 or 144, something like that.
The AFQT percentile score only goes up to 99. It's a percentile rank comparing your AFQT score to those in the test group of 18-23yr olds during a 1997 test study.
Anyway, this argument is getting a little sad. I've seen first hand a number of guys with high ASVAB scores, even one guy who scored a 99, who have the common sense of a stone.
You can still be very bright...but dumb as a rock.
Then I've seen guys with lower scores, say 50s-60s, who are a GO on everything.
Also, a large number of those coming in under those low standards end up acumulating a lot of college credits or recieve a degree or two. Remember in the Army (and other military branches) you are ALWAYS training and educating yourself. You HAVE to in order to be promoted, at least above E4. Yes there's always that 40 year old E4 out there trolling the recruiter's station but then there's soldier's like one of my DS's who made E7 in 7 years.
I think a lot of the uppity high on a mountain top folks demeaning the military here wouldn't cut it in BCT because your DS's likely scored lower than you or don't meet your standard. You'll likely have a PG at some point who's a moron and you'll have to deal with that. You wouldn't be able to deal with frago after frago because you think everything should be crystal clear perfect the first time. There's a guy just like you in every platoon and no one likes him.
Alan
transplatant wrote:
And Gen. Jim Kimsey - founder of AOL.
I'm a physician in the Navy and have had the privilege of meeting and working with both officers and enlisted members who blow my abilities out of the water, in various arenas. Like another poster said, the low pass rate is not a comment on the military, but on the state of education in the United States. Generally speaking, I don't get into debates. I would feel uncomfortable and like a hypocrite to presume to discuss a subject with which I am not thoroughly and intimately familiar. Those who are displaying such a negative attitude towards those who serve them come across to me as completely ignorant regarding the subject that they disparage.
I hope the folks who criticize the intellectual capacity of the armed services may consider actually educating themselves on the subject before running their ignorant fingers across an anonymous message board. I do acknowledge that it is really, really cool to criticize the military.
Well said.
Youse Dumbass miltitant losers !
"Those who are displaying such a negative attitude towards those who serve them come across to me as completely ignorant regarding the subject that they disparage."
Key comment above. Bravo.
Alan
Wonder why the Zionistas and Chicken Hawks don't join the Army infantry and then turn around and blab and blab anti-Semitics rants on Palestinians and Arabs.
Mandarin(?) the words for the numbers make things much easier and quicker to do math:Except that Chinese use Hindu-Arabic numerals in schools.
I'm sure Sean Hannity, Bill O'reily, Limbaugh, Levine, Mitt Romney, Glenn Beck etc. wouldn't cut it in the US Army or Marines.
I agree. But whassup with Jew Michael Weiner Savage. He hating on Semtite Muslims but where's his CIB ?
I think the OP is just trying to make the point that the military's standard of intelligence for a soldier is very low.
You seem to be supporting this by making it clear that being "trainable" is a more sought after trait than basic reading, writing, and arithmetic skills.
As for the holier than thou attitude, I think that it is A) popular in our generation to deride all facets of this nation's war participation and B) a reaction to similar attitudes of excessive praise and commendation of duty, that is held in more conservative and rural communities for members of the armed services.