LetsGetRealdotcom wrote:
CS is having a great season and, barring injuries, could potentially run even faster in Europe! I'm sure he has recalibrated his goals for this season and is likely targeting times far faster than those I ventured.
The expectations are not unrealistic....yet going 6 secs faster at this level is going to be pretty tough.....but I don't think he's got intentions of another 10k race this season.
Solinsky is having a remarkable season, no doubt. And it can certainly be argued he has run the 3 best consecutive races (fortunately he didn't run U.S. champs). But what about the best season, or the best stretch of racing?
From what I can piece together, here is Kennedy's racing schedule in the summer of 1996. In a two month period from July 8 to Sept. 7 Kennedy raced 10 times in 8 different countries on 2 continents. He also set a new American record four times, twice each in the 5K and 3K. He ran sub 13 twice, sub 13:07 four times, and ran a 3K time that has never been bested by another American runner.
July 8, Stockholm, 5K, 12:58.21*
July 12, London, 3K, 7:36.04
Date unknown, Atlanta, 5K, 13:54.57 (first heat Oly qualifying)
Date unknown, Atlanta, 5K, 13:27.90 (Semi-final Oly qualifying)
August 8, Atlanta, 5K, 13:12.35 (6th, Oly final)
August 10, Monte Carlo, 3K, 7:33.96*
August 14, Zurich, 5K, 12:58.21*
August 23, Brussels, 3K, 7:31.69*
August 30, Berlin, 5K, 13:06.12
September 7, Milano, 5K, 13:04.04
* American record
In addition, on May 26 in Eugene he ran the 5K in 13:12.14, and on June 21 he won the U.S. trials in 13:46, after running 13:58 two days earlier in qualifying. There may be others I've missed. But this was a pretty impressive stretch of racing by just about anyone's standard.
Malmo,
First let me say that I thought his race yesterday was very good and that he is having a great season so far. Based on the title to your thread though I think it is very reasonable for anyone to suggest that Webb, Ryun, Lagat, and others have had 3 races in a row that were up to par with what Solinski has done. Also with what your wrote in the thread title about "at this level" it seems as though we should be looking more at what he has done against competition instead of times. Therefore it is very reasonable to assume others have equaled or bettered it. Finally there is not a single place where you mention it having to be a certain distance and due to the fact that most people here run mid d to distance anyone in those categories suffices.
concord wrote:
Solinsky is having a remarkable season, no doubt. And it can certainly be argued he has run the 3 best consecutive races (fortunately he didn't run U.S. champs). But what about the best season, or the best stretch of racing?
From what I can piece together, here is Kennedy's racing schedule in the summer of 1996. In a two month period from July 8 to Sept. 7 Kennedy raced 10 times in 8 different countries on 2 continents. He also set a new American record four times, twice each in the 5K and 3K. He ran sub 13 twice, sub 13:07 four times, and ran a 3K time that has never been bested by another American runner.
July 8, Stockholm, 5K, 12:58.21*
July 12, London, 3K, 7:36.04
Date unknown, Atlanta, 5K, 13:54.57 (first heat Oly qualifying)
Date unknown, Atlanta, 5K, 13:27.90 (Semi-final Oly qualifying)
August 8, Atlanta, 5K, 13:12.35 (6th, Oly final)
August 10, Monte Carlo, 3K, 7:33.96*
August 14, Zurich, 5K, 12:58.21*
August 23, Brussels, 3K, 7:31.69*
August 30, Berlin, 5K, 13:06.12
September 7, Milano, 5K, 13:04.04
* American record
In addition, on May 26 in Eugene he ran the 5K in 13:12.14, and on June 21 he won the U.S. trials in 13:46, after running 13:58 two days earlier in qualifying. There may be others I've missed. But this was a pretty impressive stretch of racing by just about anyone's standard.
He didn't run a single 10K.......but, that is indeed a very impressive string of races (outside of the Oly heats)
Letsrun Junkie wrote:
Malmo,
First let me say that I thought his race yesterday was very good and that he is having a great season so far. Based on the title to your thread though I think it is very reasonable for anyone to suggest that Webb, Ryun, Lagat, and others have had 3 races in a row that were up to par with what Solinski has done. Also with what your wrote in the thread title about "at this level" it seems as though we should be looking more at what he has done against competition instead of times. Therefore it is very reasonable to assume others have equaled or bettered it. Finally there is not a single place where you mention it having to be a certain distance and due to the fact that most people here run mid d to distance anyone in those categories suffices.
Obviously you didn't read the entire thread before you posted. With all of the petty bickering that's understandable. So let me highlight a few things for you.
On the 8th post of the thread, in which I compared Kennedy's career PRs to Solinky's last three races, which is what I thought clearly illustrated the intent of the thread. It seemed logical to me that in order to compare Solinsky's last three races I'd have to find a similar three race performance from others. Since there were no others to compare, I compared the career bests of Americas most prolific runner to add true perspective to Solinsky's last two months.
"He's already strung together three consecutive races faster than Kennedy ever did in his entire career. Time has already told.
10k PR advantage Solinsky
5k PR advantage Solinsky
5k on home turf: advantage Solinsky"
Is there anything not clear about that?
I also said "This was a straightforward thread that you read wrong and I can understand how you read it wrong."
Is there anything not clear about that?
concord wrote:
But what about the best season, or the best stretch of racing?
Yes, that was obvious. Kennedy has 14 of the top 24 5k performances by an American. "Everyone else" might even the score at 14-14 by the end of the Summer. Or go ahead 15-14?
Hopefully, move ahead. But I think his 3K record is even more impressive where he has 5 of the top 6 and 14 of top 23. It will still be a while until "everyone else" catches up.
For those younger runners who might not be familiar...
7:30.84 Bob Kennedy Monaco 08.08.1998
7:31.69 Bob Kennedy Bruxelles 23.08.1996
7:31.77 Bob Kennedy Oslo 04.07.1997
7:32.49 Bernard Lagat Ostrava 27.05.2010
7:32.55 Bob Kennedy Monaco 04.08.1999
7:33.07 Bob Kennedy Monaco 16.08.1997
7:33.15 Bernard Lagat Saint-Denis 17.07.2009
7:33.37 Sydney Maree London 17.07.1982
7:33.96 Bob Kennedy Monaco 10.08.1996
7:34.41 Bernard Lagat Rethimnó 21.07.2006
7:34.44 Bob Kennedy Paris 29.07.1998
7:34.96 Adam Goucher Monaco 20.07.2001
7:34.98 Matt Tegenkamp Monaco 20.08.2006
7:35.2+ Bob Kennedy Hechtel 19.07.1997
7:35.33 Bob Kennedy Nice 18.07.1994
7:35.41 Bob Kennedy Paris 21.07.1999
7:35.50 Bob Kennedy Bruxelles 03.09.1999
7:35.68 Matt Tegenkamp Stockholm 07.08.2007
7:35.84 Doug Padilla Oslo 09.07.1983
7:35.92 Bernard Lagat Eugene 07.06.2009
7:36.04 Bob Kennedy London 12.07.1996
7:36.15 Bob Kennedy Monaco 25.07.1995
7:36.28 Bob Kennedy Bruxelles 22.08.1997
7:36.68 Bernard Lagat Gateshead 31.08.2009
7:36.69 Steve Scott Ingelheim 01.09.1981
7:36.90 Chris Solinsky Sheffield 15.07.2007
7:37.04 Jim Spivey Köln 01.08.1993
7:37.05 Chris Solinsky Eugene 07.06.2009
7:37.31 Matt Tegenkamp Monaco 25.07.2007
7:37.32 Matt Tegenkamp Eugene 07.06.2009
7:37.43 Bob Kennedy Köln 21.08.1994
7:37.69 Bob Kennedy Nice 12.07.1995
7:37.70 Rudy Chapa Eugene 10.05.1979
7:37.72 Chris Solinsky Saint-Denis 17.07.2009
It blows my mind how good Kennedy was. I wish I would have understood enough about track when that was happening to understand what he was doing.
Kennedy's 5000 record is just as good.
12:54.12 ( 3) Bernard Lagat (AZ) 04 Jun 2010 Oslo NOR
12:56.27 ( 3) Dathan Ritzenhein (OR) 28 Aug 2009 Zürich SUI
12:56.66 ( 6) Chris Solinsky (OR) 04 Jun 2010 Oslo NOR
12:58.21 ( 5) Robert Kennedy 14 Aug 1996 Zurich SUI
12:58.56 ( 7) Matthew Tegenkamp 04 Sep 2009 Brussels BEL
12:58.75 ( 2) Kennedy-2 08 Jul 1996 Stockholm SWE
12:59.22 ( 1) Lagat -2 28 Jul 2006 London ENG
12:59.29 ( 1) Lagat-3 04 Sep 2005 Berlin GER
13:01.15 ( 2) Sydney Maree 27 Jul 1985 Oslo NOR
13:02.93 ( 2) Kennedy- 3 22 Jul 1994 Oslo NOR
-10-
13:03.06 ( 2) Lagat- 4 30 May 2009 New York NY USA
13:03.37 ( 4) Kennedy- 4 16 Aug 1995 Zurich SUI
13:03.57 ( 6) Kennedy- 5 01 Sep 1998 Berlin GER
13:04.04 ( 5) Kennedy- 6 7 Sep 1996 Milano ITA
13:04.90 ( 8) Tegenkamp- 2 19 Jan 1982 25 Jul 2006 Stockholm SWE
13:05.18 ( 7) Kennedy- 7 14 Jul 1998 Rome ITA
13:05.54 ( 5) Kennedy- 8 11 Aug 1999 Zurich SUI
13:05.93 ( 2) Kennedy- 9 08 Jul 1994 Villeneuve d'Ascq FRA
13:06.12 ( 2) Kennedy- 10 30 Aug 1996 Berlin GER
13:06.62 ( 6) Kennedy- 11 07 Jul 1997 Stockholm SWE
-20-
13:07.41 (11) Tegenkamp- 3 14 Sep 2007 Brussels BEL
13:07.71 ( 9) Kennedy- 12 13 Aug 1997 Zurich SUI
13:07.97 ( 2) Tegenkamp- 4 18 Jul 2009 Heusden BEL
13:08.11 (7) Solinsky-2 03 Jul 2010 Eugene OR
13:08.43 ( 9) Kennedy- 13 07 Jul 1999 Rome ITA
13:09.64 ( 5) Kennedy- 14 21 Jul 1995 Oslo NOR
13:08 is a great time, Solinsky's 2nd-fastest ever. But why the emphasis on it happening on American soil? Big deal, who cares where it was run.
Because it is a big deal, and yes, people do care.
I'll bet he'd rather have 12:53 in Stockholm or Brussels. The really big thing about the Stanford race was that it was the first ever sub-27 by a non-African, not where it was run.
'Why does a medal matter? Very few individuals will ever medal in a major athletic event. Those that don't get medals aren't any less outstanding (except to the pimple-popping crowd)[/quote]'
I can't believe you wrote that
when he ran 26:59 in Stanford, which was slightly better than or about the same as his 12:56, it was in the states, obviously. U.S. races have historically been slower than European races because the fields until recently have not been nearly as good and the weather conditions are usually unfavorable in the late spring and summer in the U.S. The issue about Europe/U.S. is just about the conditions and the quality of the field/pacing, unless the Euro tracks are all like the local track I'm using here in Paris (only 375m!). Euro races are fast because the conditions are good and the field and pacers are of high quality. Solinsky had every advantage running so close to home, but the conditions were poor and the field slowed after 2k. At Pre, the race was run in the mid afternoon in the sun and 78 degrees, as Malmo said, which is ridiculous for a place primarily good for distance races, and that affected the runners. Moreover, the foreign runners had travelled a long way, through a lot of time zones to get to this race, and just as American runners usually have a tough first race in Europe each year, so you would think runners based in Europe or East Africa would on the West Coast. Solinsky's race was 12 seconds slower than his previous one in Oslo (no problem there going through all the time zones to his first Euro race) and conditions explain part of that, and the pacing part of it. But others in the field didn't slow as much from previous races (Merga, Bekele, even Kipchoge (10s)) as Solinsky. So, I would guess that he peaked for Stanford, held it for Oslo, and now is going to have to rebuild a bit and sharpen again in late July to test his pr's again in August.
Didn't Salazar set ARs in the Marathon, 5K, 10K within 3 months in 1982?
1 in the top 6 versus 5 in the top 6. no, not really. it's close though, but not quite just as good.
Malmo,
Most of the petty bickering you speak of on this thread is your doing.
When you mention Solinksky's "advantages" you fail to mention Kennedy's "advantage" in the 3K.
this is hilarious- . I like the fact that Suzy Hamilton is mentioned, who is from the same HS as chris. When you run 13:08 on a bad day, that's a pretty good sign. Solinsky will regroup and break 13 again this summer.
naia champ wrote:
When you run 13:08 on a bad day, that's a pretty good sign.
You must not of read the entire thread. You missed the point. HE DID NOT HAVE A BAD DAY. Chris ran faster than any other American in the history of Track and Field on US Soil other than Lagat.
Exactly. Very few athletes get medals, so to be among the best you need a medal or some top placings in big events.Does anyone care what times Craig Virgin ran? Shorter? Rogers? Zatopek?
malmo wrote:
Better Analysis wrote:irrelevantwhat matters at this point is can solinsky show up on one day over the next 4-8 years and bring home a medal, which is something kennedy was never able to do
Why does a medal matter? Very few individuals will ever medal in a major athletic event. Those that don't get medals aren't any less outstanding (except to the pimple-popping crowd)