Overdraft Fees

like a box of chocolates wrote:

This will come as a shock to many of you. Banks don't need your business if you have less than $100k in the bank. Making a couple hundred bucks on overdraft charges on people that keep less than $1,000 in their account will not pay the bills. Taking your business elsewhere means nothing unless your pulling 6 figures out of their bank.

You ARE correct if you are refering to this person individually. They won't give a shit if he leaves. However that bank would prefer to have 100 shmoes w/ $1000 in their accounts than the one guy w/ the $100k. The profit margin is much higher than with the big $ customers.

I don't really understand how you guys are defending banks for this either? Yes, of course it is my fault when I overdraft, but usury is also a crime ( a much much worse one). A penalty when I overdraft, yes. Over 200 dollars in fees for overdrafting 1 time by a dollar (because the banks absolutely do post from largest to smallest and even shuffle your charges in time--if you don't beleive me call them and ask them...they will happily say they do it for your convenience ha!) when a CASH deposit doesn't clear for 4 DAYS, ABSOLUTELY UNETHICAL AND ILLEGAL. Again, you getting robbed on the street because you put yourself in a bad situation is stupid, and you hold some responsibility. But the person who robbed you is AT FAULT, and not stupid, but a CRIMINAL. There is a clear distinction and if you can't get your head far enough out of your checkbook register to see that then you are the idiot.

This thread has inspired me to write a review of ING bank which has $0 overdraft fees. They just start charging you 7.25% interest.

http://www.letsrun.com/2009/ingbankreview.php

is the review.

I seriously really enjoy banking with ING if that is possible.

Even signing into their website is more enjoyable than with other banks I've used.

I can't blame the bank completely, a previous poster used the example of a $99 check, and a $4 and a $5. You have $101 in the account. Who is most entitled to the $ in the account, the guy you owe $99 or the guys with the really minor amounts? I would say it is whomever presents the check first, but that is just me.

Also, your robbery analogy is pretty weak, you are equating simply being on a street with writing checks that you don't have the funds to cover.

Klondyke Runner wrote: I am sickened and saddened buy your thought process. No wonder we have so many economical woes in this country. I totally overestimated the intelligence of the average consumer.

(Formerly old dudes) So I have ABSOLUTELY no idea how banks work? So I didn't know how to open up an account, avoid overdraft fees (despite me complaining about it I've only had two in ten years), don't know how to deposit checks, didn't figure out how to get a credit card, etc. I know what I'm talking about.

You're making this personal and I don't appreciate you being such a jack***, so how about you talk about this and stop with the insults. (What are you 20? - Adults know how to talk without insulting).

So when you overdraft you're borrowing from the bank? Well, legally, credit cards can't charge above about 30% (I don't know the exact number). So lets see, you overdraft by $1 and you get a $35 fee. That's ever-so-slightly above 30%. I know it's not a credit card, but it's a point of comparison if you're talking about "loaning".

It's all there in black and white you say. So everything that's in black and white is ethical? Then how have companies gotten away with so much recently (paying executives huge salaries with stimulus money, etc.). Just because it's written doesn't mean it's right.

I don't know how the market system works at all? Ever heard the expression "buyer beware" in Economics? What about the Fair Credit Reporting Act? My point is, it's not so clear that businesses are always ethical and consumers need to just go with it and watch their backs. There's a long history of protective measures for consumers against bad business. Is it really such a stretch to imagine that high overdraft fees on low purchases, amongst many other things, is ethically questionable?

And you harass my thought process, yet you never answered the questions I've posed because you know they're legitimate. You just pick one thing you disagree with and say that you can't believe how stupid I am. We'll see what type of response you come up with.

Poor wrote:

but usury is also a crime ( a much much worse one).

You are not being charged interest. You are being charged a fee.

Usury means charging a fee for the use of money. This definition was changed to mean charging of unreasonable or relatively high rates of interest. At first a limit was set, then raised, then ignored.

Listen, sorry I made it personal, this is LetsRun so that is kind of default mode here.

It is not interest, it is a fee. You do not need to pay it, it is similar to a fee you would pay for, say, not meeting the terms of a business agreement.

It is not a part of the banking structure that is necessary, so they can charge what they want.

I know it seems like a small deal to you, but if everyone overdrew their accounts, the banks would collapse. It is a big deal.

I see where you are coming from, honestly I do. It is just that I feel personal responsibility is much more important to back. If banks were truly breaking a law, I would agree with you.

Personally, I do not get charged a fee if i overdraw. It goes to a line of credit where I am charged a typical interest rate if I do not pay it off during the billing period. I have not let this happen, but if i did, I would just pay it off and never pay a cent in fees or interest.

i think the main point a few of us are trying to make is that you (not you personally) need to man-up and take some stock in your financial life. Figure out how to track your money, do not rely on others (funny that you trust the bank to monitor your accounts while also claiming they are thieves). In addition, learn about your money and figure out the best deals. I can only shudder when I think about many of you buying a car or taking out a loan on a house.

You can only blame yourself for opening an account with ridiculous fees. Walk in the door, tell them what you are willing to pay and if they cannot meet that, go elsewhere.

Even though he is kind of a jerk, Klondike makes the most sense. I have to agree with him here

old dudes wrote:

And if Congress gets its way add mandatory health insurance to the mix. And add ... (there's a ton). Of course we need to look after ourselves (and manage our money well). But to simply stop there is naive and stupid. The banks (and many other institutions) are making a LOT of money by screwing customers and nothing is being done (well, I think some legislation was passed recently to allow consumers to make payments up to the day after they're due, so that's something).

I needed to get that off my chest. Screw the man.

You are all over the board. Do you believe that government should stay out of your business? But you want them involved to protect you from the banks?

So you are for government involvement.

I agree with you. However, the banking system wouldn't collapse if tons of people overdrew their accounts, because they'd just remove the ability to do so immediately. If banks want to allow people to overdraw, they should allow them to opt in. It's certainly a predatory practice (which isn't to say that people themselves aren't at fault).

I understand the difference between a fee and interest, and that because it is a fee it is legal for them to charge a high rate. And you have no problem with them doing so because it's legal. I'm saying that just because it's legal doesn't mean it's right (I obviously think it's wrong for the fees to be so high). You say they can charge what they want, but I think there should be laws to limit how much a bank can charge.

I know if everyone overdrew there accounts it would be a big deal. But it's an equally big deal when a consumer gets so heavily slammed ($100 in fines) for making three $2 purchases if they had $1 in savings when they thought they had $10. I personally don't trust the banks to monitor my accounts (never claimed that). I understand the personal responsibility, but when this happens to so many people, I think laws should be made.

As to me being all over the board in regards to mandated health care: yes, that was a tangent, though related. I don't think health care should be mandated, but rather should be optional. That doesn't force me into anarchy. I can hold that the government should be involved by creating consumer protection laws and that they shouldn't mandate health coverage without being at all contradictory.

Look at it this way, if a guy gets busted for going 10 over the limit he can get a ticket, but there are limits to what his punishment can be. HE MADE A MISTAKE and it is HIS FAULT, but it would be unethical to give him 10 yrs. Similarly, if a consumer overdraws their account THAT PERSON MADE A MISTAKE and it is THEIR FAULT. That doesn't mean the banks can do whatever they want. Whether current fees are acceptable is a matter of preference. But CLEARLY there should be some limit on what the banks can do.

Hitler23 wrote:

Klondyke Runner wrote:

...said the douchebag who still rents. Get back to us when you grow up.

LOL OWN3D!!111!1!

i'm sorry. i'm 28 and live in manhattan, w/out the means to buy. but hey, maybe i should just live outside my means like the rest of america.

me > klondyke, hilter and whoever mr. nerd "i'm 27 and keep a register"

PWN3D!

Shank of America wrote:

How about banks stop letting people overdraft? No one wants to be able to overdraw their accounts, and banks just do it to generate fees. I never opted in for this great ability.

How about taking responsibility for your own actions and quit spending money you don't have! Just because you have this ability to overdraw your account doesn't mean you have to do it. P u s s ies like you make me sick; going through life blaming everyone else for the problems you cause.

The banks thank you. Stupid people have been allowing them to make money for years.

yt wrote:

i'm sorry. i'm 28 and live in manhattan, w/out the means to buy. but hey, maybe i should just live outside my means like the rest of america.

me > klondyke, hilter and whoever mr. nerd "i'm 27 and keep a register"

PWN3D!

Living outside your means is exactly what you are doing. You have no business living in Manhattan. You are trying to play the part of some big-shot city guy when you should looking at investing some property in Jersey, where you belong.

Axis Austin wrote:

Look at it this way, if a guy gets busted for going 10 over the limit he can get a ticket, but there are limits to what his punishment can be. HE MADE A MISTAKE and it is HIS FAULT, but it would be unethical to give him 10 yrs. Similarly, if a consumer overdraws their account THAT PERSON MADE A MISTAKE and it is THEIR FAULT. That doesn't mean the banks can do whatever they want. Whether current fees are acceptable is a matter of preference. But CLEARLY there should be some limit on what the banks can do.

Okay, so read the 2nd part of my post where I tell you to shop around. I do not get charged for overdrawing my account. Not a cent.

There are likely countries where driving 10 over will get you executed. Obviously I don't choose to live there, so why would you choose to patron a bank that charges you unfair fees. The consumer is in control, the consumer is just too stupid to figure it out. Again, you seem like a nice guy I would probably like to hang out with, I just get upset with people who are always playing the victim.

yt wrote:

i'm sorry. i'm 28 and live in manhattan, w/out the means to buy. but hey, maybe i should just live outside my means like the rest of america.

me > klondyke, hilter and whoever mr. nerd "i'm 27 and keep a register"

PWN3D!

Hey yt, I am not even sure what you are arguing. You obviously have a system that works for you, so I think we are on the same page. You have your methods, and I happen to keep an excel register with my purchases. I am not sure why you would criticize that...

Are you arguing that we should all just ignore our balance and hope to get lucky? I am missing something.

i made a joke about a register to the self-righteous sounding poster (not you) and subsequently got called a douchebag. you were not even involved in the initial exchange.

however, i still maintain my original, though not all that serious contention, that if you're a single guy and keeping track of purchases/checks from a checking account via a bi-weekly review of your account online is unreliable enough that it would cause someone to overdraft, there is responsibility problem. i could not care less who keeps a register and who does not.

wejo wrote:

This thread has inspired me to write a review of ING bank which has $0 overdraft fees. They just start charging you 7.25% interest.

http://www.letsrun.com/2009/ingbankreview.php

is the review.

I seriously really enjoy banking with ING if that is possible.

Even signing into their website is more enjoyable than with other banks I've used.

Agreed. I've been with them since my last year of high school. I went to them exclusively when they opened up the orange checking accounts, which coincided with my first year of regular paychecks.

The website is great, no fees for anything, you can open up accounts for $1 (if you're not yet paid regularly), and before the recession, they had very competitive rates.