Vessey 1:57.85!!

dude she is not drugs, just because your sorry a** can't run that fast doesn't mean that she can't. She had a hamstring pull scare at Paris and therefore she didn't run. Plus it's not 1:57 overnight, if you had seen her run in prior races you can assume if she kicked in earlier that her time was not a true representation of her talent. Also Nick Simmonds ran 1:43 from 1:44-1:45 this year. Why isn't he being put on blast for being on drugs? What about BOLT who cruised the WR in the 100? What about Adam Steele from Minnesota who won the 400m d1 nationals with 44.57 and before nationals he was a 45.9 runner. All i'm saying is that in the right race, right time and with the right pressure anything big can happen and since the whole heat was under 2:00 (except the american) she was bound to run fast. So f off and shut up. Go play with your barbies.

Brilliant! She has held back all season, and now is letting it loose the race before the World Championships. She even said she felt like she had a little more in the tank. Awesome!!

She has a long career, but what a big break through she has had at age 27, dropping, so far, 4.83 seconds for 800.

2002 2:06.53 1 Big West Irvine CA 18 May

2003 2:05.78 4 West Stanford CA 31 May

2005 2:03.10 2 NCAA Sacramento CA 11 Jun

2007 2:11.57 6r2 Bush Eagle Rock CA 3 Jun

2008 2:02.01 5 NC Eugene OR 30 Jun

2009 1:57.84 1 Herc Monaco 28 Jul

1:57.84 1 Herc Monaco 28 Jul 2009

2:00.04 1rA Flanders Gent 21 Jul 2009

2:00.13 1 GGala Roma 10 Jul 2009

2:00.18 1 Pre Eugene OR 7 Jun 2009

2:01.19 4 NC Eugene OR 28 Jun 2009

2:01.49 4 Reebok New York NY 30 May 2009

2:02.01 5 NC Eugene OR 30 Jun 2008

2:02.72 1 Eugene OR 15 Jun 2008

2:03.06 8rA Aviva London 24 Jul 2009

2:03.10 2 NCAA Sacramento CA 11 Jun 2005

2:03.49 1s2 NC Eugene OR 26 Jun 2009

2:03.56 1r1 Jordan Stanford CA 4 May 2008

2:03.81 1 Hamilton Berkeley CA 25 Apr 2008

2:03.81 2s1 NC Eugene OR 28 Jun 2008

2:04.00 3h2 NC Eugene OR 27 Jun 2008

2:04.02 2h2 NC Carson CA 24 Jun 2005

2:04.03 1rA Stan Inv Stanford CA 28 Mar 2009

2:04.25 2s2 NCAA Sacramento CA 9 Jun 2005

2:04.48 3rA Jordan Stanford CA 2 May 2009

2:04.78 1 Big West Irvine CA 14 May 2005

2:05.21 1h3 NCAA Sacramento CA 8 Jun 2005

2:05.44 2h2 NC Eugene OR 25 Jun 2009

2:05.50 1r6 MSR Walnut CA 20 Apr 2008

2:05.54 1 Hamilton Berkeley CA 25 Apr 2009

2:05.78 4 West Stanford CA 31 May 2003

2:05.86 3r4 MSR Walnut CA 18 Apr 2009

2:05.90 3 West Eugene OR 28 May 2005

2:06.08 5r1 Stan Inv Stanford CA 4 Apr 2008

2:06.12 3 Guldsp Kortrijk 16 Jul 2005

2:06.23 2h1 West Stanford CA 30 May 2003

2:06.23 7 NC Carson CA 26 Jun 2005

2:06.53 1 Big West Irvine CA 18 May 2002

2:06.77 4 DécaNation Paris 6 Sep 2008

2:06.82 OT 3 Husky Seattle WA 1 Feb 2003

2:07.03 5r6 MSR Walnut CA 17 Apr 2005

2:07.23 1 Cardinal Stanford CA 10 May 2002

2:07.51 5h2 NCAA Fayetteville AR 14 Mar 2003

2:07.64 OT 3 Last Chance Seattle WA 8 Mar 2003

2:08.01 1 Big West Northridge CA 17 May 2003

2:08.12 8h2 NC Stanford CA 19 Jun 2003

2:08.16 6 NCAA Fayetteville AR 15 Mar 2003

2:08.31 1h3 West Eugene OR 27 May 2005

2:08.34 1 Spring Break Irvine CA 23 Mar 2002

2:08.47 1 Northridge CA 4 May 2003

2:08.60 1 San Luis Obispo CA 4 May 2002

2:08.89 7h1 NCAA Sacramento CA 11 Jun 2003

2:09.03 OT 6 Wa Inv Seattle WA 29 Jan 2005

2:09.18 1 Cal Poly Inv San Luis Obispo CA 29 Mar 2008

2:09.89 4 MPSF Nampa ID 21 Feb 2003

2:10.27 4 Johnson/JJK Westwood CA 8 Apr 2005

2:10.86 1 Holiday Inn Nampa ID 12 Feb 2005

2:10.94 1h2 Big West Irvine CA 13 May 2005

2:11.57 6r2 Bush Eagle Rock CA 3 Jun 2007

2003 2:06.82 OTi 3 Husky Seattle WA 1 Feb

2005 2:09.03 OTi 6 Wa Inv Seattle WA

Symmonds: 1:43.8

tiger runs fast wrote:

i totally agree, so glad somebody spoke up. if there are any real runner's on here you know you don;t drop a 5 second season pr in 3 months...it takes hard work, and adaptation to develop into that level og athlete. not a few good races.. plus, she's with ray flynn who is known for giving out candy!

same person, posting more stupidity.

T Clubber wrote:

I feel like it must really suck to be the sort of person who sees an awesome performance and immediately concludes, "she must be on drugs"

it must suck to be the kind of person who completely ignores the facts about top athletes and PEDs.

Believing any athletes at the very top of world class fields are clean now is ridiculous.

She will get busted soon.

would you dolts believe a 9+ sec improvement in the mile?

19 sec improvement in the 2 mile / 3k, 30 sec in the 5k?

compet wrote:

I totally agree with the above theory.

nearly 28 years old and dropping from 2:02 to 1:57 in one year. Its just not possible. I would equal it to a man dropping his PR from 1:48 to 1:43 in one season.

Anyone who has run 800m knows how long it takes to shave seconds off PR's and she has absolutely destroyed her's in the space of a few months.

Yeah, so Wheating didn't do something close to that?

It is possible. Especially for American women who stick with it. Especially for people who finally get in long streaks of training without injury, or the right kind of balance between training and rest, or the right kind of coaching and support.

Most women of her ability quit before her age...she is definitely an outlier.

Very encouraging for other athletes who want to reach their best.

busted s00n wrote:

She will get busted soon.

would you dolts believe a 9+ sec improvement in the mile?

19 sec improvement in the 2 mile / 3k, 30 sec in the 5k?

Just like Bolt?

Please...

her times are more believable than a Sprinter getting this fast. Bolts rate of improvement from 2007-2008 was much larger, where are all the questions about him?

Besides its beyond fact that all Russian women middle distance athletes are doped, that is why there are 4 in the top 6.

So you're willing to believe Bolt and the Russian women, but oh my god, this Vessey must be doped? Shut up you idiot.

who said anything about bolt? bolt will be busted soon. there are lots of questions about bolt, get your head out of your ass.

-O-bama means ZERO! wrote:

busted s00n wrote:

She will get busted soon.

would you dolts believe a 9+ sec improvement in the mile?

19 sec improvement in the 2 mile / 3k, 30 sec in the 5k?

Just like Bolt?

Please...

her times are more believable than a Sprinter getting this fast. Bolts rate of improvement from 2007-2008 was much larger, where are all the questions about him?

Besides its beyond fact that all Russian women middle distance athletes are doped, that is why there are 4 in the top 6.

So you're willing to believe Bolt and the Russian women, but oh my god, this Vessey must be doped? Shut up you idiot.

so i guess her hamstring was good for this race.

Sir Lance-alot wrote:

I don't know if the improvement you quote is accurate, but if it is, I am sure some eyebrows were raised. And it is still a smaller improvement than what Vessey did.

Dude, try some math.

If Steele went from 45.9 to 44.57 in one race, that's an improvement of 1.33 seconds or so. That's like someone dropping close to 2.7 seconds in an 800 (actually it's even better than that for reasons I won't get into). So Steele took a bigger percentage off his best than Vessey did.

Look at what C. Wurth-Thomas has done this year, and she's older than Vessey. Today she took 1.99 seconds off her 800 PR. DRUGS! DRUGS! DRUGS!

This board is for knobs of the highest order.

A couple of points:

1) We don't know if she is on drugs or not, and until she is busted we have to assume she is clean (although it is OKAY to speculate).

2) From 2002 to 2008 she went from 2:06 to 2:02, dropping four seconds over six years. From 2008 to 2009 she went from 2:02 to 1:57 high, dropping another four seconds over one year.

3) The four seconds from 2:02 to 1:58 are way harder to shave than those from 2:06 to 2:02, and she did it in one sixth of the time.

4)Her drop in time is roughly a 3.6% drop. While lots of highschoolers and undergrads make similar drops, rapid rates of improvement tend to begin at the start and then things level out. Not many athletes make drops of 2-4% after having steady carreers for a while. A notable example is Rachid Ramzi, who dropped a little over 4% between 2003 and 2004, going from 3:39 to 3:30. Ramzi was younger and had not been plateuing for nearly as long as Vessey. It's interesting to observe that almost the entire Letsrun.com board was (rightfully) convinced of Ramzi's guilt, but then the entire board jumps to Vessey's defence. It seems to me that we are holding ourselves to a false standard.

5) Why do I believe that Symmonds is probably not doped (if anything he's on HGH.. look at that jaw!) and that Vessey possible is? Well going from 1:44.10 to 1:43.83 in one year is a .2% increase. If Symmonds had improved by 3.6% and ran 1:40.4X then I might have been a tad suspicious. Likewise if Vessey had improved at the same rate as Symmonds and run 2:01.8X I probably wouldn't be all that curious.

6) Personally, I beleive that most of the top performers are on some sort of performance enhancing regimen, but that doesn't stop me from getting excited about their performances, for as long as they aren't caught, I'll assume clean (although I may have suspicions with some individuals). However, I do feel the need to speak up when I see such rampant defence of one individual when many others in the same situation are hung out to dry. A more true quote I have never heard: "It seems the command of the English language is inversely proportional to ones level of doping".

Not on Drugs wrote:

Why does she have to be on drugs because she ran a 3 second PR?

Good question. I guess you should ask the person that wrote the following...

Letsrun front page wrote:

Russian Champs: *Anna Alminova Runs 3:58.38 (First Sub-4) And 1:57.86 At Russian Champs. Just after a lot of their top women got busted for drugs, Alminova rises to the top.

Yet Alminova has previously run 1:59.90 in 2007 and is an ex World Junior silver medallist at 1500, but it seems her times couldn't be mentioned without adding a comment about drugs.

Board Dehancing Poster wrote:

This board is for knobs of the highest order.

and then you clicked "Post Message".

no, this makes sense.

You people need to relax. Her running this fast, frankly, makes sense. Lets look at this step by step:

1. She has the talent - 2nd at the NCAAs in 2:03.10. Plus, it's impressive that she's able to do it from a small school.

2. Unfortunately, she doesn't get sponsored. Running without a sponsor means she doesn't have the chances that a lot of other athletes have, including getting into faster meets, which would have helped her drop her time earlier in her pro career. Plus, she's gotta work a job and split her focus.

3. 2008 is an Olympic year and she goes into it focused on improving and being ready for Nationals. She strings together several good races, progressing in a reasonable way throughout the spring and early summer before Nationals. She runs her season a lot like a college athlete would - starting slow in March at a small invite, moving on into the Stanford meets with faster competition in April and May, and continuing on into June.

4. She finally has a breakout race in 2008 at Nationals, getting 5th and setting a pr of 2:02.01. This is the perfect race to show someone with her talent that she can compete for a spot on the US team and perfect motivation going into 2009. This is also her last race of 2008, as she didn't go to Europe. If she had, she'd possibly have lowered her pr by more in 2008. Remember, she's not sponsored and doesn't have the opportunities to seek out faster times abroad like a lot of athletes.

5. Getting 5th at Nationals allowed her to get into some bigger domestic races for the first time in her career in 2009, like Reebok and Pre. Taking the confidence she gained from the year before, she realizes she's able to run with better competition and does. She runs a pr in May of 2:01.49 for 4th at Reebok. Again, this was her first chance to run in a major invite.

6. Then she gets the opportunity to run against the best field of her life, to date, at Pre. Taking the confidence she has gained from Nationals last year and Reebok and a perfect race setup, she's able to win in 2:00.18. The race really did break perfectly for her. She was forced to run harder on that 600 than she had ever run in a race before to keep in somewhat of contention, even if she was still far behind, then was able to just turn off her mind and kick. This race gave her even more confidence, but more importantly, a chance to go to Europe for the first time in her career as she now has a competitive time.

7. At Nationals she runs terribly in the final, clearly mentally out of it and tactically ridiculous, but is still able to kick for 4th, with some hope of making it to Worlds.

8. She goes to Europe for the first time in her career and is able to get into bigger and faster meets than she has ever been in. Now she's in the perfect position of being in a field to help drag her along, with the confidence that she can run with those girls, but without much pressure. She continues to run a slow first 400, but is able to get two victories both in pr's.

9. Now she faces the pressure to run sub 2:00 as neither of the other girls ahead of her at Nationals have the A standard, thus keeping the door open for her to go to Worlds. It's her one poor race as she feels the pressure, like she did at Nationals.

10. In Monaco she rebounds from that poor race and just runs relaxed and most importantly A FAST AND TACTICALLY SMARTER FIRST 400! It's the first fast (sub 60) opening 400 she has ever run in her life. It actually puts her in position to run a fast time.

11. She'd been running such a damn slow first 400 for so long that she couldn't possibly run that fast of an 800. She didn't have the confidence to go out harder or, frankly, the balls to do it till now.

To me, her progress makes a lot of sense. This season happened because of last season. Her 5th place at Nationals last year got her into drastically better meets than she'd ever been in. Those meets were early in the year - Reebok and Pre. Getting into those better races and running well at them allowed her to, for the first time in her career, continue her season on into the summer and European circuit. It's likely that she would have dropped her time by more last year, if she had gotten the chance to race in Europe, which would have made the amount of time dropped this year smaller. This is what happens when a talented person finally gets both the confidence to compete and the competition needed to run fast times. Plus, you can't run a fast 800 if your first 400 doesn't put you in position to do so. For the first time in her life she finally had the perfect combination of confidence, a fast race, and a f*ck it mentality to run a big time pr. Congrats to her!

What's the website that you got these stats from?

This is a great accomplishment for her. If she continues to race like this, she will be in medal contention in Berlin.

You can explain all you want, but if she were Russian, it wouldn't even be in question.

I'll be rooting for Alminova in Berlin.