Russian 1500m Women Suspended

About time. I have suspected that Russians have been doped for sometime. But one question. We know that athletes have to pee in front of testers these days even in the case of out-of-competition tests. So how could testers have tolerated them when they handed over different samples? I suspect Russian mafia at work here. They may have forced the testers to take the clean and different urine samples OR it could have been deliberately done. However, it couldn't have been the latter since we have seven athletes chosen in no particular order. It would be great for the IAAF to open up about this.

I agree. There could be corruption within Russia's Anti-Doping Testing Organization (All Russia Athletics Federation - ARAF). Now wouldn't that be a surprise! I sort of expect this to be the case.

Jamaica producing so many top sprinters is not so improbable. Take white people and asians around the world out of the equation (no whites or asians have ever run below 10 flat for 100m), and the pool of elites is a lot smaller...basically you're looking at blacks for top performances in sprints. Consider that where you have the largest pool of blacks, Africa, lots of people are more concerned about where their next meal is coming from than playing games, and you reduce the pool even more. That leaves migrant black groups in latin America & the caribbean, north america and Europe to a lesser extent. Weather is crappy in Europe relative to the other places, so maybe that's why they aren't as well represented...though top French & English sprinters are mainly black. So now we're down to the Americas. Blacks in South America are kind of like those in Africa - worrying about the next meal, and if they see sports as way to the next meal, they're probably going to play soccer like most other South Americans. In the US, blacks sprinter types gravitate to football and basketball mainly, so that gets rids of whole chunk of them. Which leaves the Caribbean - a place where the standard of living is high enough that it is more feasible to think about pursuing track and field as a means to an end. Then, you have a longstanding tradition of the area producing top sprinters. In the past they competed for Britain - do your research. Outstanding sprinters come from all over the Caribbean - ever hear of Wendell Mottley, Edwin Roberts, Michael Paul, Ian Morris, Linford Christie, Donovan Bailey, Darrel Brown, Andretti Bain? Who won the 100m at the D1 ncaa champs this year - men and women? Look at the results of the World Youth champs. It's not just Jamaica. trinidad, St. Kitts, Bahamas, Grenada has a 15 year old kid, Kirani James, running 45. The caribbean produces top sprinters. Jamaica is the most populous of the caribbean countries and there is no NFL or NBA. Have you ever been to the Penn Relays? There is a proud tradition of producing top sprinters. It means a lot more there than it does in this country where most people tune in to track once ever 4 years. Are there so many Canadians in the NHl because they're cheating? Are lots of Asians grad students in US science programs because they're cheating somehow? Are jews disproportionately represented in positions of power in this country because they're cheating. Argentina and Brazil are a lot smaller than the US and they're two of the world superpowers in football (soccer for you). Cheaters? How about France? Germany? Italy? All powerhouses in soccer. Are they so much better than the Us because they cheat? Just because someone is better than the US in something, it does not mean they've gotten to that position unfairly. US universities have been training the caribbean top sprinters for several decades now. it's not like these people have come out of nowhere. Be a student of the sport. May I suggest you google "Caribbean Track and Field" and visit that message board. Caribbean people love their track and field and you won't find the same racist crap on that board that you do here.

Kerron Clement, Sandie Richards, Hasely Crawford, Don Quarrie, Kent Bernard, Edwin Skinner, Ato Boldon, Michael Agostini, Marc Burns, Kelly Ann Baptiste, Obadele Thompson, most of Britain's and Canada's top sprinters. Where do you think all of these people come from?

So no Caribbean sprinter could ever take positive.

I can't wait till they get Bekele!!!

How do out of competition testing work?

Aren't athletes competing at international level subject to the tests despite "disappearing into the mountains?

Here is something new I read on the T&Fnews discussion board:

"Looks like this last one was a DNA swab from inside the cheeks taken at the Russian OT.

Those results didn:t compare with the earlier ones taken last season in april-may and august-september on the seven athletes.

Valentina Vasilyevichs learned of the IAAF suspicions in june. The IAAF had made queries about the seven athletes in question last season, but didn:t act on their suspicions until june - nine months after the second series of tests were performed. This is one area of concern for the Russian execs, as they wondered what took so long for the IAAF to analyse. Vasilyevichs turned to the IAAF on the eve of the Russian Championships and asked what should be done now that the IAAF had alerted the Russian federation. Nothing was done at that moment, and Vasilyevichs states he wanted to get more information from the IAAF for the case, and nothing was done. He wanted to know if the seven athletes should (or not) be permitted to compete. The Russians did remove one athlete from competition due to a positive "A"-test, though no elaboration is provided as to which one.

The IAAF responded to Vasilyevich that there were no foundations for either them or the Russian federation to remove any of the athletes at that moment - nine months after the second sample was collected. Each of the athletes in question appeared in Kazan and five of them were selected into the Olympics.

The following day, after the end of the Russia Olympic Trials (21-july), smear tests from inside of each of the seven athletes cheeks were volontarily taken without coercion - a fact Vasilyevich stated was an evidence of the atheltes innocence (why volonteer for something which would ultimately bust them?).

The testers reported to Vasilyevich that the tests demonstrated that the true DNA of each of the seven athletes did not correspond to the tests from 2007-april and 2007-may.

Vasilyevich questions why a test on DNA takes so long to complete ("six to eight months?") He shed a bit of humour on the issue and asks, "Has the idea to compare tests become alien to someone in IAAF relatively recently?"

Among other things Vasilyevich points out and discusses, he was most interested in why the IAAF removed the seven athletes instead of disqualifying them all-together. He states the implication of a disqualification is a direct link to CAS, something they are not afforded with a removal. The removal is a sign of suspicision; the disqualification would have been an evidence of guilt."

ruthenium wrote:

How do out of competition testing work?

Aren't athletes competing at international level subject to the tests despite "disappearing into the mountains?

brit73 is talking out his ass. Ethiopia and Kenya do out of comp testing. Renato has discussed this regularly on here, and recently there were posts on here from Christian Hesch on letsrun on how Ethiopians he was training with (and yes, he trained with Geb), were pulled away for out of comp tests. So... so much for brit73's nonsense.

Isn't it somewhat strange to let a stranger directly observe your act of peeing?

brit73 wrote:

Out of competition testing catches a few Russian atheltes. Big shock, heh?

What about the Ethiopians then? No out of competition testing at all, because they are not of one of the 8 nations worldwide that do out of competition testing. They disappear into the mountains, so even if the IAAF wanted to catch them out of competition it would be unlikey they would find them to test them.

Remember Bekele's 18 year old fiance died of a heart attack while on a training run!

I have sympathy, I am Western and do not have financial concerns. But it isn't a level playing field. Paula and Jo Pavey have done very well to battle against science.

My suspicions are founded and are based relationships within the British running community.

If you'd ever gone to Addis to see them train, you'd have known that if they're not racing abroad they're either training at the track in the national stadium or training in the forest, about 1000m above the city. They're not hard to find. Hesch was there in Marsh and saw T Bekele and Cherkos get tested three times in a week. And really, don't you think Ethiopia can be excused for not spending millions on an independent testing agency when, you know, a million Ethiopians are starving in the south of the country?

Nut Doctor wrote:

Sir Lance-alot,

I don't know if I support your thesis or not. OTOH, the times from the Russian OT's did seem unbelievable.

While we are conjecturing, I have come to the conclusion that the Jamaican sprinters are most likely doping. I just can't believe that such a puny nation could produce so many top level athletes. It is just so improbable.

Then there's swimmer Dara Torres, talk about improbable..... What does Sir Lance think about her?

Believe it: just as the Kalenjin produce the majority of the world's sub2:12 marathoners, Jamaica's population is set up for producing sprinters. Do you think that Bolt was on drugs when he ran 20.12 as a 15yr old? The guy is just a freak.

trollism wrote:

So no Caribbean sprinter could ever take positive.

trollism,

No one (with a brain) is saying that. There are certainly a number of Caribbean sprinters who have and are cheating right now. But the fact that Caribbean nations produce world class sprinters at a higher rate than other nations is not surprising when you take into account all facts (the slave trade, early emphasis on track, excellent year-round weather, high profile, etc).

Drug Buster wrote:

Among other things Vasilyevich points out and discusses, he was most interested in why the IAAF removed the seven athletes instead of disqualifying them all-together. He states the implication of a disqualification is a direct link to CAS, something they are not afforded with a removal. The removal is a sign of suspicion; the disqualification would have been an evidence of guilt."

They are "suspected" and removed, therefore no rights to appeal because they have not been "disqualified"?

That totally stinks.

IMO the IAAF perpetrators are the offending party here, not the athletics.

No evidence, no supporting documents, no clue of what happened. Perhaps they shuffled around the samples and got them mixed up. Perhaps the samples from a year ago were no longer discernable. The IAAF is looking more and more clueless, and should not be in charge of the athlete's careers.

Surprise! wrote:

Point of clarification wrote:

or Adam Goucher or Ian Dobson or...........

Yeah, those guys must be doping since they just dropped the 1st and 2nd fastest times of the year at 5k and 10k.

Seriously, how is there suspicion for someone who runs 27:58 or something and 13:20 or so.

Rowbury

Beached Whale wrote:

"The 6 suspended did not test positive for any substance, but the IAAF, by running DNA analysis on their samples, realized they were submitting fake samples for out of competition tests (which leads to involvement of some co-conspirators in the process). This shows the IAAF program to target suspected cheats (based on profiling samples) is making some progress, although it also shows the anti-doping authorities still cannot actually detect the drugs the cheats are taking."

Wejo, how does this prove that the IAAF can not detect the drugs they have been taking?? For all we know these athletes could have been submitting fake samples all along. I think your logic is flawed.

I think I see what WEJO is saying. The tests were not positive for anything. So they weren't caught for a particular drug. What would really be interesting is if the IAAF forced all these swappers to hand over legit samples. I bet they would all register as negatives. The world cycling body did this. Demanding samples from teams that were all busted for cheating by police stings that uncovered syringes. And they still passed the test!

brit73 wrote:

What about the Ethiopians then? No out of competition testing at all, because they are not of one of the 8 nations worldwide that do out of competition testing. They disappear into the mountains, so even if the IAAF wanted to catch them out of competition it would be unlikey they would find them to test them.

Remember Bekele's 18 year old fiance died of a heart attack while on a training run!

I know others have already replied, but this is a really embarrassing post. Despite your attempt to signal otherwise, you clearly know nothing at all about the Ethiopian set-up. They are probably the easiest group of runners in the world to find, either at the national stadium or Entoto hills which is only just outside Addis. As others have pointed out, they do get tested out of competition.

And as for bringing up the death of Bekele's fiancee again, this has been discussed many times. Try finding the threads and you will see that those trying to draw the same inference as you lost the argument every time.

I am glad to the russian cheaters going down. We all knew this as the russian men are nowhere near the same level of performance. How they managed to swap the samples shows there is corruption somwhere (direct interference by Poetin?!).

Which country will be taken down next?

Great Britain, Kenya, Ethiopia, or India?

What are the possibilities that the U.S. sprinters are using the same method the Russians alegedly used? I mean just look at all the personal records, American,collegiate, and high school records were set in the sprints at the trials in Eugene?

Marshavette Hooker- 10.76 PR

Lauryn Williams- 10.86 PR

Torri Edwards- 10.78 PR

Muna Lee- 10.89 PR

Tyson Gay- 9.77/9.68 (American Rec)

Travis Padgett 9.89/9.85 (Olympic trials rec)

Darvis Patton 9.89/9.84 (Olympic trials rec)

Walter Dix 9.80

Lolo Jones 12.29

If they had done this type of testing at the U.S. trials, I'm willing to bet many of the above mentioned athletes would not be going to Beiging either. They should do DNA testing on all the urine samples across the board not just on a selected group of athletes like the Russians. It's exptremely likely that they're not the only ones guilty of cheating. Going on just recent history, the U.S. sprinters have been the dirtiest of the bunch.

Marion Jones, Jerome Young, Kellie White,Calvin Harrison, Alvin Harrison, Antonio Pettigrew,Justin Gatlin, Tim Montgomery, just to name a few!