womens 5000 -(with 200 to go)"being the African American in the group, Treniere Clement definately has the advantage this final 200" (again don't remember word for word)
What's wrong with pointing out an obvious fact? I would always bet on an African American in a sprint finish.
Blacks ARE better at sports.Blacks ARE less intelligent.Both statements are true.How is one racist and one not? Either they both are, or they both aren't. I vote that neither are racist, they are just a statement of facts.
Canuck1212 wrote:
There is racism and there is political correctness. This falls under the extreme category of political correctess, where you apparently can't use physical characteristics to identify someone. What if she had red hair and the announcer said; "Clement - the woman with the red hair - has superior footspeed and should strike hard in the last 200m"? That wouldn't be offensive at all, and neither should identifying her as an African-American.
As for the "Why can't she just be called an American? Why Make her only half an american?" argument, thats stupid. Many people are called Irish-American, Italian-American etc. Because the U.S.A. is a country of immigrants, hyphenations are often used to distinguish race. The descendants of slaves have cleary changed from their ancestors to become a different "race", and thus are designated so.
Finally, for the argument saying "Blacks are better at sports" is just as racist as saying "Blacks are dumb" is equally or moreso retarded as the rest of filth spewing from politically-correct whackjobs mouths. Something is only racist when it denotes hatred towards a certain group. Complementing West-Africans, and thus African-Americans on their superior genetics is not an act of hatred. Saying blacks are uneducated, something that brings back racial predjudices and human rights violations from American history, has a little bit more hatred behind it.
Its the same reason why the word "N*****" denotes hatred and is unnacceptable, whereas the word "Cracker" does not stem from any time where whites were horribly mistreated and the word itself was not used to demean human life.
Except maybe on the basketball court.
If you're making an empirical observation (and phrasing your conclusion a little more maturely) than it's not racist.
If you conclude without evidence that blacks are better at sports and less intelligent BECAUSE they are black, then it is racist.
May not be easy for everyone to understand such subtle differences. Which leads me to the observation that racists ARE less intelligent. Or more accurately, the less intelligent ARE racist.
Shall I go on?
photofinish wrote:
Blacks ARE better at sports.
Blacks ARE less intelligent.
Both statements are true.
How is one racist and one not? Either they both are, or they both aren't. I vote that neither are racist, they are just a statement of facts.
Except maybe on the basketball court.
First of all, you have to phrase your sentances so that you are not simply being rude. "West-Africans are genetically predisposed to have certain attributes which help them in power sports such as sprinting, basketball, and football" is similiar to saying "East-Africans are genetically predisposed to have certain attributes which help them in endurance sports such as marathoning".
These are statements that deal with the GENETICS of a race, moreso than the culture. Whether African-Americans have "less intelligence" or not, it is more a matter of cultural upbringing than genetics. In this scenario, this cultural upbringing has been affected by the gruesome treatment of America's founding fathers on Africans brought in for slavery. The common standard of that time was to say that blacks were "N*****s", or less than human. Therefore they had less intelligence. By saying Blacks have less intelligence today you are bringing up that old hate-inspred hurt, and also insulting them, thus it becomes racist.
A more correct statement would be; "African-Americans, as a somewhat general rule, have less opportunities for education than their less-impovershed Caucasian-American counterparts". While still controversal in terms of the insult-value, you avoid bringing up that old hate by simply reiterating a stereotype.
Saying the Japanese or Koreans are more educated due to a superior schooling system is perfectly fine, and similiar along the lines to African-Americans are superior in certain athletics due to genetics. Neither are Racist because you avoid the hate.
You all that are making statments on intellgence and color need to read GUNS germs and steel. This book would open up a lot of eyes that think race has anything to do with being smart. ITS more cultural and enviornmental then anything else. Just like whites recent success in sports.
Ryry wrote:
You all that are making statments on intellgence and color need to read GUNS germs and steel. This book would open up a lot of eyes that think race has anything to do with being smart. ITS more cultural and enviornmental then anything else. Just like whites recent success in sports.
Intelligence probably has more to do with environment, but I would argue athletic ability has more (than intelligence does) to do with genetics, or at least adaptation to environment over centuries.
Nothing I said is rude. I am simply stating facts. You are Exhibit A with regard to what I detest most about differences in human beings. You people always have some sort of explanation as to why things are the way they are. An explanation which is invariably tilted and biased towards a particular agenda.
There is no more correct statement than what I said. Political correctness is OVER, but you didn't get the memo apparently. Let me say it again - the problems between the races are perpetuated by people such as yourself because you lie to yourselves and to others in the name of politeness and political correctness. But this helps no one, it only distorts the truth and creates resentment. Which in turn, perpetuates racism. You are working towards the impossible goal of everyone having the same general abilities. It ain't ever going to happen.
I may be blunt, but I am honest. There is no hate in what I say. If you choose to see hate, that is your problem, not mine. White Men Can't Jump must also be incredibly hurtful and racist towards whites, in your view. Well, guess what? WHITE MEN CAN'T JUMP! It's OK to admit it. I'm white and it's quite obvious to me and to everyone else. I'm over 6 feet tall and I have no chance of ever dunking, no matter how hard I try. Sure, some white guys can dunk. But not many. There isn't anything wrong with it. It is what it is. Males are more physically able than females. Again, nothing wrong with that either. Asians are better at math too, but they suck at driving. Not statements of hatred or admiration, just cold dispassionate observation. Do I wish Asians could drive better? Sure, I'm out there on the roads too, so I have a vested interest in some way. I'm glad they are good at math, but I don't really care what this means to society, I just notice the facts.
Stop trying to pretend we are all the same and explain things away.
In a sprint, I'd put money on the black guy.
On Jeopardy, I'd put money on the white guy.
In science, I'd put money on the Asian guy.
In finance, I'd put money on the Jewish guy.
...and so would you.
do you really think that the people in Africa could create a schooling system like those in the far east or in the usa? you're point doesn't make any sense. in america anyway, the results are the same no matter where the system is. certain races score better than others regardless of the system. even where blacks have lots of money and great schools. i think you are goin down the wrong path here. blacks have never once outperfromed whites on iq tests where the sample size is big enough, even where the blacks are well off and the whites are living in trailers. get a new argument, and you sound like some pc prick to me.
The term "African-American" is pointless; if you are participating in the Olympic Trials, you are by definition "American." So there is no need to hyphenate. If someone has a black skin-color, why not just say they are "black". No one calls me caucasion; they say I'm "white." And yes, since anthropologists say human life originated in Africa, aren't we all "African-American," no matter how many generations removed?
They might create a "schooling system" that teaches people the difference between you're and your. Which apparently America cannot.
There are more male geniuses than female geniuses, and there are more male idiots than female idiots. Why doesn't environment account for this? Sure, you could say that females have been held back and that's why there are fewer female geniuses, but how and why would there be more male idiots?
Einstein, Turing, Newton, and Archimedes had no genetic advantage over others? It was just their home environment? Is this what you are saying in regards to intelligence?
And for photofinish, are you saying that empirical evidence is all you are going to go on? Amazing. I can walk along with about 80 percent of your argument, but do you see Asians here or have you spent a lot of time over in Asia? Don't you think that China sends its best and its brightest here? Don't you think that a lot of the Asians who have made it over here were the most tenacious? Really, if we are talking about math, let's take a look at the Jews. And actually, let's look at a very specific group of Jews.
I'd suggest looking not only at Jared Diamond's stuff, but I'd also look at Thomas Sowell's Conquest and Culture. There's so much oversimplification here. Also, how significant are the percentages of differences and how severe in degree are they?
And Canuck1212, are you basically taking all your learning from that Runner's World article about East Africans and West Africans?
And Canuck1212, are you basically taking all your learning from that Runner's World article about East Africans and West Africans?
I don't read Runner's World, so no. But I do know that it is documented, or at least highly suspected, that West Africans have a different muscle-fibre composition that lends itself to more fast-twitch/quadricep-power. Regardless of any science, look at sprinting dominance in the world. West Africa, the Carribean, and the USA. All either West Africans, or descendants of West-African slaves.
Environment and Genetics both play a factor when contributing to physical makeup.
just pasted this under the previous post - nothing to do with the above posting - this is to all:
the sissy, pathetic race card players.
politically correct is so damn riduculous and pansy.
get over it!!
is it a problem? yes - has been - always will be !! in our lifetimes anyway.
Just remember the more you damn tree huggers hollar race and disrespect -- the more you perpetuate the label and the problem continues.
What would happen if we all ignored the race card players? If they didn't have anyone listening - would they shut up and go away?
photofinish wrote:
Nothing I said is rude. I am simply stating facts. You are Exhibit A with regard to what I detest most about differences in human beings. You people always have some sort of explanation as to why things are the way they are. An explanation which is invariably tilted and biased towards a particular agenda.
There is no more correct statement than what I said. Political correctness is OVER, but you didn't get the memo apparently. Let me say it again - the problems between the races are perpetuated by people such as yourself because you lie to yourselves and to others in the name of politeness and political correctness. But this helps no one, it only distorts the truth and creates resentment. Which in turn, perpetuates racism. You are working towards the impossible goal of everyone having the same general abilities. It ain't ever going to happen.
I may be blunt, but I am honest. There is no hate in what I say. If you choose to see hate, that is your problem, not mine. White Men Can't Jump must also be incredibly hurtful and racist towards whites, in your view. Well, guess what? WHITE MEN CAN'T JUMP! It's OK to admit it. I'm white and it's quite obvious to me and to everyone else. I'm over 6 feet tall and I have no chance of ever dunking, no matter how hard I try. Sure, some white guys can dunk. But not many. There isn't anything wrong with it. It is what it is. Males are more physically able than females. Again, nothing wrong with that either. Asians are better at math too, but they suck at driving. Not statements of hatred or admiration, just cold dispassionate observation. Do I wish Asians could drive better? Sure, I'm out there on the roads too, so I have a vested interest in some way. I'm glad they are good at math, but I don't really care what this means to society, I just notice the facts.
Stop trying to pretend we are all the same and explain things away.
In a sprint, I'd put money on the black guy.
On Jeopardy, I'd put money on the white guy.
In science, I'd put money on the Asian guy.
In finance, I'd put money on the Jewish guy.
...and so would you.
Facts that you "notice" are not facts and they are subject to the biases of your observation. Most Blacks would observe the "fact" that Whites are more racist than blacks. Whites probably don't agree and will get all defensive about it by responding "a lot of blacks can be racist too.." which may be true but proves nothing as to whether Whites are more or less Racist than BLacks. Ask an Asian person and the Asian person will probably say Whites are more Racist in certain ways and Blacks are Racist in other ways..
You cannot pass your observation off as Fact.
hey, how about this. it's an obvious observation based on a survey of outcomes over years of racing: the "african americans" almost unfailingly have better kicks at the end of distance races than white guys. it's no secret that wariner winning 400 meter races is an anomaly. why do we pretend not to notice that in the combined mens and womens 100, 200 and 400 meter final, there's one white person--wariner? are we really goign to pretend this is coincidence? that genetics has nothign to do with it? are we really going to keep shouting people down as racists for verbalizing an obvious observation?
photofinish wrote:
Nothing I said is rude. I am simply stating facts.
I agree with that society is too PC these days, but I have to disagree with the wording of your facts.
The statements "blacks are more athletic than whites" and "blacks are less intelligent than whites" are too simple to be meaningful.
One could easily interprete this to mean ALL blacks are more/less athletic/intelligent than ALL whites. Like when I hear that turtles are slower than rabbits, I suspect it to be true in all cases. If that is your intent, it's obviously wrong.
I suspect that you intend it to mean that the average of the black group is more/less athletic/intelligent than the average of the white group, but if so, you need to be more clear about that. I have no problem with comparisons between two groups (any groups) using facts.
However, when making declarative statements, you have to be sure your terms are clearly defined by all. Like this - men are, on average, taller than women. Height is easy to measure, there's not much ambiguity there.
Intelligence is difficult to measure and define. Experts do not agree on the usefulness of IQ and SAT tests, and frankly, to me it seem obvious that those test ignore vital aspects of intelligence such as creative, emotional, and social intelligence. Heck, it's been argued that our big brains evolved to deal with increasingly complex social groups, so it's clearly important.
Oh get over it people.
Who cares!!
Being this sensitive to all this PC is a luxury.
It is sign that people have too much time on their hands.
Look, in the end all that matters is that Kara Goucher is hot and she won the 5K.
Ok Just thought I would again add this with our lack of belief in white sprinting. All white all world class and ran world class times last season/this season
Boras (washington)
Warner (Baylor/Pro)
Rock (Lacross/Pro)
Sheumerman (Baylor)
Wissman (Sweden)
Brenes (Cro)
What do you all think about this remark on the LA Marathon?
most honest comment I've heard in a while.