Well Michigan has 3 milers at the Beijing Olympics. tells you that Ronny, not only trains them well while at school but is able to develop them for their future.
Re: brannen, Willis, and Sullivan.
all have nice contracts, good agents, Multiple Ncaa titles, and degrees from the school with the largest living alumni body, a the flag on the moon other than the us flag, the biggest football stadium in the country, and a great college city for running and living.
to talk to the coach.
Sweden-Toyota-tities wrote:
the biggest football stadium in the country, .
Bread and Circuses....this is what it is REALLY all about...
can you guys not read? he wants a top notch academic school. top 15. that leaves him 15 options. if he wants to go d1, even less options.
Letsrun.com is the worst place to get advice on choosing a college. But.. I'm going to give some any way...
I recommend:
1. doing your own research.
2. Not listening to what anyone on here says about "good middle distance programs." That's relatively subjective. You can figure out a general list of good schools by researching race results/NCAA qualifiers.
3. Likewise you can do research to determine a list of the top schools in the field(s) you may be interested in.
4. Don't limit yourself to any Division. You can find good programs that D1, D2, and D3. you'll have training partners at he right school. I knew a 4:10 miler at a D3 school. He didn't make the finals of the 1500 at nationals.
5. Determine what schools you havea shot at getting into.
6. Consider finances, location, things like that..
7. MEET THE TEAMS AND COACH.... a great program could be the wrong program for you. Great teams and coaching is all about relationships, if it doesn't work you're not liekly to be successful.
The key is to get faster (and smarter)... whatever program will help you do that is the program for you
You cannot be very old nor aware of Donnelly's resume. The only other coach of mid-distance athletes in the last 20 years that I would compare to him are Al Carius at North Central or Joe Vigil. Donnelly has chosen a career at a college that has kept him under the radar. One of the main reasons Donnelly has not had the top talent is how tough it is to get into Haverford. I have had athletes I have coached apply to both Haverford and the best NESCAC schools and my experience is that that admission offices at the NESCAC schools show more leniency to athletes then Haverford does. That being said Donnelly gets all his athletes to improve. He has had some top talent besides Paranya, but you are probably too young for their names to mean anthing. Some of them were complete head cases -- geniuses I am told can be that way -- and Donnelly still got them to improve. Ask Marcus O'Sullivan or Sydney Maree about who they would have rather had coach them in college. I have been told that Donnelly actually did coach Marcus at the end of his college career. Marcus was so fed up with what he was getting at Villanova, he asked Donnelly to coach him. Villanova would practice in the winter in the Haverford indoor facility and Donnelly would pretend to slap hands with Marcus as Marcus ran by when they were actually passing a workout sheet. If you want a great coach and you want to be the best miler you can be, you ought to look at Haverford.
that is correct - I/The Haverford team ran workouts w/ Marcus, Gerry O'Reilly, Sean O'Neill etc '85-'88. It was very very cool. And we ran together - Tom made sure these guys (Villanova runners) knew his priorty was the HC team. It is a very "flat" structure (in the true Quaker sense) and there are no superstars, no matter how good you are.
If you are a world class athlete and go to Haverford, you will have world class runners w/ whom to train. Tom has attracted top talent on the East Coast for +20 years. He is as professional and capable as any top coach in the country, BUT he treats ALL his atheltes that way. He gets as excited when a guy breaks 4:30 for the first time (probably more so) than when his top guys in Weltklasse run 3:35. Marcus and Villanova are jsut up the road, and if you need to do a workout w/ some great runners, they will be in the Haverford fieldhouse in the winter, and 1.5 miles up the road in the Spring.
Bo Parker 8:20 3k in 1980 went to Williams and was all-am only a few times. It depends on the individual.
Michigan - there is so much wreckage from that program, it defies immagination.
Rondell Ruff - who? Excatly....
graduated from HS in Detroit, ran 8/15 while @ UM. bests of ~3:45, 1:50 (?). Contemporary of Willis, Brannen, Ellerton etc. I read his blogs - he was these guys punching bag and sparing partner for 5 years....and a national class athelete.
Don't think going to UM will afford u any special priveleges. These places are designed to serve 1) the coach and 2) athletes you can count on one hand.
My two cents: In the process of choosing a school, I'd place a lot of emphasis on finding a place where you think you're going to be happy and comfortable. You can get a great education and develop as a runner at lots of institutions (see previous posts) IF AND ONLY IF you stay motivated and keep your s*** together.
And only you, maybe with help from those close to you, can really figure out what places you're most likely to be happy at. For example, for some students that might mean staying close to family; for others, it might mean getting as far away as possible. Stuff like that -- things that often get downplayed because they are "personal factors" -- often ends up making way more of a difference in your college career than a ranking (athletic or academic). In any case, good luck with the process.
Ucla has a 1:47 and 1:49 guy both with 3 years of eligibility left as well as a sub 4 miler returning. Also have cali state 800 champion coming in as a freshman.
Rising HS Senior wrote:
- Is a top 15 school academically
- Anything else that you think is important.
Thanks for you help and advice.
depends on area(s)/major you want to go into.
Liberal arts/anything else
Dartmouth
Cornell
UPenn
Business
UNC chapel hill Kenan Flager
UMichigan
UPenn (wharton)
NotreDame
Cornell
MIT sloan
Northwestern (Kellogg's Special K)
have some safety schools in the mix...
Inigo Montoya wrote:
6. Consider finances, location, things like that..
7. MEET THE TEAMS AND COACH.... a great program could be the wrong program for you. Great teams and coaching is all about relationships, if it doesn't work you're not liekly to be successful.
I agree here also. Trust your gut on this.
Common
Teammates - douchebags who drink all the time. Coach - really quirky, failed social skills 101, difficult to engage
Old MAC Conference Star wrote:
You cannot be very old nor aware of Donnelly's resume. The only other coach of mid-distance athletes in the last 20 years that I would compare to him are Al Carius at North Central or Joe Vigil. Donnelly has chosen a career at a college that has kept him under the radar. One of the main reasons Donnelly has not had the top talent is how tough it is to get into Haverford. I have had athletes I have coached apply to both Haverford and the best NESCAC schools and my experience is that that admission offices at the NESCAC schools show more leniency to athletes then Haverford does. That being said Donnelly gets all his athletes to improve. He has had some top talent besides Paranya, but you are probably too young for their names to mean anthing. Some of them were complete head cases -- geniuses I am told can be that way -- and Donnelly still got them to improve. Ask Marcus O'Sullivan or Sydney Maree about who they would have rather had coach them in college. I have been told that Donnelly actually did coach Marcus at the end of his college career. Marcus was so fed up with what he was getting at Villanova, he asked Donnelly to coach him. Villanova would practice in the winter in the Haverford indoor facility and Donnelly would pretend to slap hands with Marcus as Marcus ran by when they were actually passing a workout sheet. If you want a great coach and you want to be the best miler you can be, you ought to look at Haverford.
I keep hearing this about top talent, but really, does Haverford have any guys who ran sub 4:15/9:15/1:53 in high school? I get that he can get 4:40 guys to get better, and that he has had success coaching elites in years past, but this kid won't have any guys of comparable talent to train with on his team, which as a former runner I can say is a BIG factor.
but but but... wrote:
I keep hearing this about top talent, but really, does Haverford have any guys who ran sub 4:15/9:15/1:53 in high school? I get that he can get 4:40 guys to get better, and that he has had success coaching elites in years past, but this kid won't have any guys of comparable talent to train with on his team, which as a former runner I can say is a BIG factor.
They had a guy in their freshman class who was a 4:14 1600 runner 2 years back. They had a FR running 4:14 for the mile indoors this year. Don't know what he was running in HS. This guy would certainly be on the high end for a Haverford recruit or any D3 schools' recruits for that matter. He'd have guys to train with, but why not go to Georgetown, Stanford, or Cal? The ceiling might not be that much higher b/c of Donnelly's expertise, but the facilities, training partners, scholarship, and competition would make it a better choice in my opinion. This is from a D3 runner.
assuming this kid improves even a little bit, he will be somewhere between 404 and 409 next year for the mile. He would be a fool to throw away that talent by going to any school other than a top rated DISTANCE RUNNING SCHOOL, with a good coach and other top runners to feed off of. Columbia? Nooooo. [/quote.]
Are you kidding? Off the top of my head Columbia's numbers this year looked something like this:
1500: 342,347,350,351,352,353, and a group of guys at ~355
800: 148,149,150,150,151,151, and a group of guys at ~153
Princeton and Cornell had close to the same numbers i think...i dont know how you could think these arent successful program with good coaches and people to train with
MikeGravel100mpw wrote:
Common
Teammates - douchebags who drink all the time. Coach - really quirky, failed social skills 101, difficult to engage
Lyle?
This list may be a year or two old -- it came off the Pomona site -- but here is the all-time D-III list for 1500m outdoors. 5 Haverford guys in the top 12 and 4 of the top 8.
1) 3:39.84 Karl Paranya, Haverford 1997
2) 3:40.91 Nick Symmonds, Willamette 2006
3) 3:41.56 Tom Tuori, Rochester 1987
4) 3:41.98 Will Leer, Pomona-Pitzer 2007
5) 3:43.15 Sandu Rebenciuc, Augustana 1992
6) 3:43.75 Jason Bernstein, Haverford 2001
7) 3:44.50 Kevin Foley, Haverford 1982
8) 3:44.71 Liam O’Neill, Haverford 1986
9) 3:44.9 Mark Beeman, Brandeis 1985
10) 3:45.05 Jeff Wachter, UW-Stout 1984
11) 3:45.0 Dave Cooper, Mount Union 1996
12) 3:45.0 Matt Leighningher, Haverford 1992
Say what you will about lack of talent, but when you talk about results over time at one distance (1500m/mile), this is pretty impressive for one coach. When you factor in that Nick Symmonds made the Olympic team and Will Leer was fourth in the trials, maybe the issue with D-III is not lack of talent, but a different focus. I heard an interview from Symmonds saying he was overlooked in high school by big schools, but even so he was looking for the full collegiate experience: athletics, great classes, real relationships with professors, and fratnerity parties. What's wrong with that. Isn't the point of being a collegiate athlete to complement your education not to be the focus of your four years.
They had a guy in their freshman class who was a 4:14 1600 runner 2 years back. They had a FR running 4:14 for the mile indoors this year. Don't know what he was running in HS. This guy would certainly be on the high end for a Haverford recruit or any D3 schools' recruits for that matter. He'd have guys to train with, but why not go to Georgetown, Stanford, or Cal? The ceiling might not be that much higher b/c of Donnelly's expertise, but the facilities, training partners, scholarship, and competition would make it a better choice in my opinion. This is from a D3 runner.
Agreed... Though out of curiosity, how did the 4:14 HS 1600 runner progress? Is he still at Haverford? That might be the key for the OP, and if he's running well could provide the training partner element, as well as the 4:14 indoor FR.
I heard he started having problems with exercise-induced asthma and has also had some weird heart problems and isn't running at all right now.
After reading that other thread, I can't believe no one mentioned Nebraska.
Cal Poly: Great School, Team, Area, Weather.