What can bekele run an open 400m in prime shape fresh?

If you want to adjust Snell's times, then adjust them all. He ran quite well on grass, so I'd say 1"/ lap is a bit dubious really, but hey let's go ahead.

Let's knock his mile WR time down 7-8 seconds even though he ran his best marks with strong kicks. Snell was a closer, more like Ryun or Borz. Ryun of course ran 351 solo on dirt, with similar pacing strategy and leading all the way. Ryun I'd say had a 346 capability, but not Snell.

Now we need to say Snell's 144 was worth 142. A 142 runner who manages a 346-7 mile on more miles/week than a 144 or 145 runner has fairly unremarkable stamina. Here's what good stamina looks like for a couple of 142+ 800m runners.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=XvCsj7eJKKA

No Lydiard fanatic would ever admit that there was room for improvement on Snell's training approach.

Agree entirely. Read my post on Snell/Kerr!

i didn't think this discussion was about snell's 800wr, but i do put him as a 1'42 guy based on that grass-track run on a modern track ( & again pacing was poor - the "wabbit" shot off too quickly in about 51 which was far faster than snell wanted, but he took up the challenge )

in his mile wr, reports say no stong kick, but sustained coruscating pace thru last 3 laps

it's inconceivable anyone coud think of a 3 times og champ & 800/mile wr as some sort of "1 trick pony" of being a strong kicker - sure, he won his golds like that ( but so has virtually ever 800/1500 champ in these likely tactical races ) - when he ran his wrs he put in the sustained hurt from long way out

1'42 / 3'46 or 3'47 not evidence of great stamina ???

those are clockings of likes of coe/ovett/cram, so these guys also can be labelled as having "fairly unremarkable stamina"

as for lydiard - i have no interest in how a guy trains - i'm only introduced in the goods they produce - how they do it has never been of interest to me

Back to the original topic, finishing fast over a 5k or a 1500 is more about strength than pure speed. I'd put Bekele at 48, Lagat 47 high

Some food for thought. Here's an interview with John Walker where he talks about his Olympic final win. He gives his splits for the last lap and says he was pretty much "full tilt" and that he ran 50.1 for the last lap which was about the same as he could do from a standing start.

http://www.flocasts.org/flotrack/speakers.php?sid=712&vid=7295

I think most guys seam to over estimate the top guys speed. If they were really fast they would all be 400/800 guys but they're not. Someone like Webb is probably one of the fastest as the dude looks like a 400m runner in terms of physique. El G on the other hand has the physique of a super model.

I believe Snell made some comments regarding improvements.

He would have done some more alactic speed work (striders)

year around.

did he really split 50.1 on last lap of the final ???

that sounds far-fetched

also it's virtually impossible his open 400 was as slow as little less than 50

remember, he was a 1'44 guy ( 3rd in 74 cg behind kipkurgat/boit ) & entered the 800 also in '76

he said he was in shape of his life for montreal & couda run 3'31 if required ( that i believe ) & undoubtedly no worse than 1'45 shape for 800

you can't run 1'45 off a near 50s open 400 - it's not humanly possible - more like low/mid 48 at slowest