If Drug use is pervasive than how come no women are touching world records?

One question for some idiots in here.

Why there was not another Marita Koch, or another Flo Jo, if it was so easy to "turn women in men" in those days.

If it was so organized, rampant and easy why the hell they wouldn t have like 5-five more Marita Koch in East Germany?????

Uhhhh, because not many women wanted to look like men even if it meant sure gold?It's already established that men would go to almost any length to win at anything. Women not so much. So, Coachie, you are barking up the wrong tree with the direction of your argument.I would guess that it was even harder back in the 70's and 80's to find many women who would do that to themselves.Did this idiot satisfy your curiosity?

Coachie XXX wrote:

One question for some idiots in here.

Why there was not another Marita Koch, or another Flo Jo, if it was so easy to "turn women in men" in those days.

If it was so organized, rampant and easy why the hell they wouldn t have like 5-five more Marita Koch in East Germany?????

Coachie XXX wrote:

... you can t make gold out of shit.

Sure you can! We alchemists just didn't use ENOUGH shit!

Coachie XXX wrote:

The athletes that have those world records are just better athletes than the ones that are trying to break their world records.

It's possible a 10.05 clean sprinter can follow the same drug regime as a 9.98 clean sprinter and respond better to the workouts he'd be able to do, running 9.80 to the other (originially faster) guy's 9.85. Just as guy A can eat the same portions of the same foods that guy B eats and have trouble keeping his weight down, while guy B stays lean.

The athletes being better back then or drug testing being lax back then does not explain why men improve today and women do not.

Nearly every men's track WR was made after 1995 (100, 200, 400, 800, 1500, 5000, 10000)

And nearly every women's track WR was made before 1994 (100, 200, 400, 800, 1500, 3000, 10000).

On the men's side, every one of those athletes has African heritage.

On the women's side, only one of those athletes has African heritage.

Flojo breaks the mold. As mentioned, even the super talented, super juiced Marion Jones could not better Flo Jo's times from Seoul. (I consider Flo-Jo's 10.49 in Indy wind-aided)

Wow how smart are you.

I hope the female athletes that don t look like Barbie should apologize to you.

Did it ever occured to you that daily vigurous workouts effort may create muscles on females?

Did it ever occur to you that some females are just born more manly looking and more athletic than other ones, as you were probably born looking like a frustrated lesbian compare with other mens??

;)

Kinbote your argument has some kind of sense. Thank you. But in the same time, there is only one Marita, or Jo Flo in history, and I think people here are minimalizing their natural talent , hard work and devotion to the sport.

There is still lots of better doping today, maybe this topic was started by a frustretad doper that doesn t get the desired results.

Coachie XXX wrote:

If it was so organized, rampant and easy why the hell they wouldn t have like 5-five more Marita Koch in East Germany?????

Actually, there were more "Marita Koch's". Read "Silence of Great Distance" to gain perspective. It was hard enough for the likes of Mary Decker and other Westerners to break into the top 10 to top 20 in the world. In 1980, Decker ran an American Record of 4:01.17, which ranked her 'only' 20th in the world. She continued to break her own record, getting down to 3:59.43 that year in a race in which she finished '50 meters' behind the winner, Kazankina! Decker remarked after the race, "Their muscle definition is so pronounced. I don't doubt that they are females biologically speaking, but, shall we say, chemically, I'm not so sure."

Is Mary Decker the most talented distance runner ever??Pleasee.....

Actually now a days if a female distance runner breaks the american record in a strong international year it may not make top 10 in the world in bunch of events.

The american record is not the ultimate shizzle you know..... there is a world out there that may be williing to work harder.

Look at world middle and long distance running charts compare with the US on the women side, or hj, tj, javelin, etc.

If there is more Maritas why is nobody within half second of her time??name them genius.

jaguar1 wrote:

Decker remarked after the race, "Their muscle definition is so pronounced. I don't doubt that they are females biologically speaking, but, shall we say, chemically, I'm not so sure."

Ergo, if you can't beat 'em, join 'em.

Or

If you can t beat them talk trash about them...--that smore of the case

If you can t beat them talk trash about them...--that smore of the case

It was more of the case in 1980, and the trash talk was probably deserved.

By the 1983 WC, the playing field was even.

goducks wrote:

No Women are even coming close to flojo's 100 and 200 time, Marita Koch's 400 Jarmila's 800, while on the men's side the 100 record is being broken yearly, Wariner is knocking on the door of the 400 and the 800 record was set 10-11 years ago (I don't know enough to say if people are running realistically close to this record nowadays). But doesn't it seem like if the drugs are just as good if not better now than they were then, than people should be at least coming close to these records. The Women's heptathlon, discus, shot put, and 100 hurdles are similarly out of reach. Is HGH less effective than the anabolic steroids people were taking in the 80's?

Current drug testing makes it harder to use large dosages of the most potent steroids for long periods of time. Steroids are the best drug, far and away, for sprinters. The womens 100, 200, 400 and 800 WRs were set by women who took large dosages of steroids for long periods of time right up until competition time. Steroids help women MUCH more so than men; if you recall, white eastern European sprinters in the 1980s also doped, however they were far less successful than their female counterparts for this reason. The reason male 100-400 WRs will continue to fall is because tallented west African sprinters were fairly late to the doping game to begin with, starting with people like Kevin Young, Quincy Watts, Michael Johnson, Ben Johnson, etc. While post 1988 steroid use among men became more difficult, it had never really been exploited by the most gifted sprinters of the 1980s in conjunction with resistance training (aside from Ben Johnson); witness a non-steroid user like Carl Lewis' ability to dominate despite also not lifting weights...

Right now, it's no surprise that someone like Powell is the WR holder at 100 meters, in his neck of the woods, out of competition testing is very rare, giving him pretty much carte blanche to dope with impunity in the off season.

What an outrageous and extremely unfair statement you have just made.

Firstly I would like to remind you that Sonia O'Sullivan has run under 4mins FOUR times during her career:

1993: 3.59.60

1994: 3.59.10

1995: 3.58.85

1996: 3.59.91

In addition, Zola Budd, Carla Sacremento, Hayley Tullet, Gabriella Dorio, Anita Weyermann, Maryam Yusuf Jamal, Kutre Delecha, Hassiba Boulmerka have all run under 4.00mins. The list goes on.

Oh me, oh my wrote:

He means Suzy. I've never thought there were any clean sub-4:00 women either. Not that it's some magic cutoff point; it's just a round arbitrary number that's conveniently near the kind of times many convicted drug cheats have run.

What an outrageous and extremely unfair statement you have just made.

Firstly I would like to remind you that Sonia O'Sullivan has run under 4mins FOUR times during her career:

1993: 3.59.60

1994: 3.59.10

1995: 3.58.85

1996: 3.59.91

In addition, Zola Budd, Carla Sacremento, Hayley Tullet, Gabriella Dorio, Anita Weyermann, Maryam Yusuf Jamal, Kutre Delecha, Hassiba Boulmerka have all run under 4.00mins. The list goes on.

fauxducks wrote:

Take Kenyans for example - right now, people are dying in Kenya - people are getting hacked up left and right, houses are being burned to the ground, the government is believed to be corrupt by their own people - hence the violence, Athletics Kenya is universally known to be corrupt - yet for some asinine reason people think that their runners are above suspicion and would never touch drugs, yet "they" have no problem with hacking to death someone else - WTF is up with that?

By any standards, including the very low ones on this board, this is criminally stupid.

Does the poster really believe that an entire population is either predisposed or otherwise to corruption, taking performance enhancing drugs or mass-murder? And that evidence of one is evidence of the other?

Soboleva : WR 1500m and close to 800

Suzanna Kallur: WR 60m Hurdles..

All ran in past week!!

Let's stick to analyzing the outdoor records.

There are more indoor competitions on better tracks now.

It is not a fair comparison.

Let's see if Soboleva and Kallur break the outdoor records this year.

Kallur is legit. It'd be very, very good is she comes home with gold from Beijing.