If Drug use is pervasive than how come no women are touching world records?

Because athletes who could break the records don't have steroids, they have integrity.

Don't blame the many on the faults of the few.

^o^

Blaze

so people are cleanly breaking world records on the men side that were set by dirty athletes? Or people are cleanly breaking clean records on the mens side while women are cleanly not breaking dirty world records?

I like your point: Everyone wants to point the finger at steroids immediately when there are amazing performances. I seriously doubt drug use is that universal among top athletes. Anyone who thinks that needs to take a Stats class or something. The probability is VERY LOW that 100% of elite athletes are doping.

I'll be honest, you lost me there, I think the records are clean, I think the athletes are clean. I think there are some athletes that are dirty, but they arn't the ones who set the records.

THIS IS NOT A LITERAL STATEMENT I'M SURE THERE IS MAYBE ONE/TWO, MY POINT IS GENERAL. That ought to veer off the trolls.

^o^

Blaze

Primarily because the amount of 'roids used back then on women was similar to that used by elite men in the same events. Look at JK photos during her big run - that was a man. There was no hiding the fact that she was doped to the gills - and then some. One of the East German women had a sex change female to male - too many 'roids.

http://www.sporting-heroes.net/files_athletics/KRATOCHVILOVA_1983_GH_L.jpg

This is just a SWAG, but it could be that men, by virtue of greater natural muscle mass and higher natural testosterone, have more available receptor sites for PEDs in general and therefore can respond better to smaller quantities or newer, less detectable drugs which keep them a step in front of the testers, while women's optimum threshold of response occurs with the easily detectable (and more dangerous) unrefined steroids of the 1970s and 1980s. Ergo, women don't do as well on the new drugs (or when masking agents are introduced) as they did on the cruder, "to hell with my future health" drugs of 20-30 years ago. That wouldn't completely explain the Chinese distance records set in the 1990s, which are assumed to been influenced by blood-doping drugs such as EPO if they were doping at all, but another theory says their tracks were short of 400 meters (or, in the case of the 10,000, Wang ran a lap short, with almost ridiculous splits of 15:05 and 14:26). They did do well in global championships after setting those records, but hardly (if ever) came within 10 seconds per mile of those WRs outside of China.

You are a naive fool. Sorry not necessarily a personal attack, but it is the truth. Not 100% are doping - but much, much higher than most here would like to admit.

Take Kenyans for example - right now, people are dying in Kenya - people are getting hacked up left and right, houses are being burned to the ground, the government is believed to be corrupt by their own people - hence the violence, Athletics Kenya is universally known to be corrupt - yet for some asinine reason people think that their runners are above suspicion and would never touch drugs, yet "they" have no problem with hacking to death someone else - WTF is up with that?

How 'bout all of those Africans training and racing in the United States, are they part of any formal drug testing? Nope! Do you think that someone from Ethiopia or Kenya is going to fly to Albuquerque, NM to do some random drug tests on their athletes? Sorry, it ain't happening. The folks at NYC and other major marathons must be pressured into not handing out money to athletes who are not on a year round drug testing regimen.

Sorry, but EPO is out of your system within days of initially taking it - but the effects last for months. Unless someone is caught jabbing a syringe into their arms labeled "Illegal Performance Enhancing HGH" - it is undetectable - despite some of the pre-Olympic scare mongering.

Yeaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaah..........

So, because Americans are in Iraq using the world's most sophisticated weapons to kill innocent women and children for no reason at all, ALL AMERICANS ARE ON DRUGS BECAUSE WE HAVE NO MORALS. Is that what you're trying to say?

Have you heard of the psychological term "projection"? =)

I love how you jump to the absurd extreme - because of X then Y - therefore applies to "ALL".

Also, we are not using the most sophisticated weapons to kill innocent women and children for no reason at all. First, if we wanted to kill them all, this would have been wrapped up in a few days and we could have moved on by now. Second, I am quite sure that someone has a reason as to why we are there so, to say "no reason" is absurd.

Cheers!

So, now that we have gotten your little red herring out of the way, why is it that Africans or any other country or continent in the US are not subject to any formal drug testing while they are training here? Again, when was the last time that a member of the Moroccan, Kenyan or Ethiopian Athletic Federations flew to ALBUQUERQUE, NEW MEXICO to do a random blood or urine test on athletes "training in Alburquerque"? Quite simply, it has not happened - EVER! Yet the NYC Marathon and other large marathons in the US continue to dole out money to these guys. Again, the large gap between elimination and time of benefit is so great that "token" urine testing at an event is practically worthless.

YOU, my friend, are RETARDED wrote:

Yeaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaah..........

So, because Americans are in Iraq using the world's most sophisticated weapons to kill innocent women and children for no reason at all, ALL AMERICANS ARE ON DRUGS BECAUSE WE HAVE NO MORALS. Is that what you're trying to say?

Your "psychological" term projection applies directly to your original argument. You are projecting the corruption of the kenyan gov't to the kenyan athletes.

Hmmm, you only mentioned that the africans are cheating - nobody else, is there some kind of point you are trying to make or do you just have something against africans? Your argument that EPO is undetectable applies to Whites, Asians, South Americans, and all races of elite athletes. According to your theory Tegenkamp, Goucher, Kennedy, etc are all on EPO.

How do you expect some of these extremely poor kenyan stars to get their hands on expensive drugs like EPO?? Boy, they must have a disproportionate amount of EPO in one centralized area of Kenya because all of the stars come from one tribal region. And new young stars come out of the woodwork nearly every day! They must be switching from breast-feeding to EPO syringe-feeding in that region!

Simple-the women of the late 70's to mid 80's were using more powerful drugs then the women of now. That doesn't mean that drug usage is less pervasive however. Take the womens 400m-the top five times all time are shared between Marita Koch and Jarmila Kratochvilova. They were on anabolic steroids which were undetectable at the time but are now. The drugs turned athletes from running great times to unbeatable times.

A relativly few number of athletes in Russia and Eastern Europe have put the womens world records out of reach.

Considering that Ethiopia is something like the fifth poorest country in the world, they probably do have more pressing matters to spend their money on.

And yet WADA still goes to Addis Ababa or Eldoret or wherever to test these guys.

but they do not follow them to the US to do drug testing.

there are a HANDFUL of elite Ethiopian's - in Ethiopia you are either elite or you are not - there are no "struggling" Olympic hopefuls as there are in the US.

You guys can continue to live in your sheltered little worlds but these are simply the realities of the world.

I'm reading "Silence of Great Distance" right now, which reflects historically on the great 800/1500m runners from the late 70's/early 80's. Probably the greatest surprise from reading this book is most of these women were putting in very high mileage, as in ~125 mpw, and 'routinely' running 1:55-2:00 and 3:55-4:00. Do you see 800/1500 women, or even men, today putting in that kind of mileage? Of course, the book talks about drug use, but drugs aside, these ladies were training incredibly hard.

Chinese women broke several wr's about 10 years ago, but were using and got caught, remember?

This Olympics will be interesting with the tight security and expected high volume of drug testing. I hope the tests are done equally on the host country - they seemed to have most of the abusers. Didn't they have a secret running camp with so-called turtle soup, and private training runs - similar to Rocky III. "I must break you"

Goucher, et al are subject to constant year round testing. How many foreign athletes training in the US are subject to random, out of competition drug testing? Care to guess?

How do these poor Africans travel to meets in Europe? Jos Hermens perhaps?

http://www.globalsportscommunication.nl/athletes_menevents_en.asp

http://www.globalsportscommunication.nl/athletes_womenevents_en.asp

Surely, not this Jos Hermens??? It must be a mistake, or another "Jos Hermens".

German athletics federation files charges

The German athletics federation has filed a criminal complaint against high-profile Dutch agent Jos Hermens and a Spanish doctor connected to doping allegations.

Doctor Miguel Anguel Peraita and Hermens, whose clients have included Ethiopian long-distance greats Haile Gebrselassie and Kenenisa Bekele, are accused of trafficking banned substances.

Hmmm I'd love to have a beer or three with you Jag1.

Drugs, particularly steroids 1) give you the will to train like an animal 2) allow you to recover from training like an animal such that someone can do this 7 days a week.

What about good ol' doc Rosa - he's "helped" out more than a few guys.

"I won't go into the long distance events, as I have been skeptical ever since Dr. Rosa left cycling during a drug investigation and took up with Kenyan runners. I'm not accusing all of them of drug use, but their numbers swelled so fast within a year of Rosa making his move, I wonder. Same thing when you hear about Jos Hermens and his Ethiopian charges. So many stories about Hermens... but nothing's been proven yet"