Georgetown

This isn't a race on the track so the same rules don't necesarily apply. I've seen guys step off the course to stretch a cramp or take a dump and return - is it legal - I don't know. I agree that if there was nothing gained then their team should not be disqualified, but I don't know exactly what happened or what the rules state so I don't really know. It makes no difference to me what happens, but it just doesn't seem right to me to disqualify a team in this case if there was nothing gained.

Seriously, heads are mad BH over this.

You house bliblibli's need to relax. Did he have a face? Did he have hands? Yes? Then it wasn't us.

qwertyuiop[] wrote:

but it just doesn't seem right to me to disqualify a team in this case if there was nothing gained.

something WAS gained: they have a place in the ranks of the ncaa meet that they do not necessarily deserve. If Taye dropped out, then he shoulod not have counted as a finisher, and G-town did not score a complete team. All teams who finished below G-town LOST a place in the meet.

:':

I have to note that I am a former Hoya, so I am quite partial.

I cant think of a sport where you arent allowed to leave the playing service and return. Guys step off the track during a race all the time. I fell off one indoors and was still allowed to finish the race and post a time. Basketball, football, Lacrosse, soccer etc. you can leave the playing for a brief period and return.

At the US 5K road championships several hundred people ran off the race course and I dont believe they were DQed.

I just cant imagine that a person would be disqualified simply for running off the course, unless it gave him a distinct advantage. That being said if he cut the course, he should be DQed, even if he ended up DFL.

Disgraceful act if you ask me--I heard Henner yelling at Taye and another Georgetown drop out (I'm west coast--don't know the kid) "One of you f*%kers better get back out there and finish the race." No attempt to conceal his anger and frustration from bystanders, and there were several. Never exposed to Henner before, but it seemed clear to me that he placed all the blame on the kids and none on himself for allowing the situation to come to that.

As a former runner for the Uarts in Philly, I completely agree. We were usually just out there to have fun...as our motto was "Just get out there and have fun!".

However, one time I was racing in the Lorton 800 meter run...Sparks plus were flying...and I just couldn't stay on the track. I lost all motor functions and fell off right in front of a bouncer. I mean official. He didn't boot me but let me get back into the race. Moral of the story? Stick with sparks light.

Yotill wrote:

I have to note that I am a former Hoya, so I am quite partial.

I cant think of a sport where you arent allowed to leave the playing service and return. Guys step off the track during a race all the time. I fell off one indoors and was still allowed to finish the race and post a time. Basketball, football, Lacrosse, soccer etc. you can leave the playing for a brief period and return.

At the US 5K road championships several hundred people ran off the race course and I dont believe they were DQed.

I just cant imagine that a person would be disqualified simply for running off the course, unless it gave him a distinct advantage. That being said if he cut the course, he should be DQed, even if he ended up DFL.

i don't think your analogies are quite right. it is not just a matter of stepping out of bounds, it is a matter of quitting the race and then starting again.

his act of moving off the course was, assuming reports are accurate, an act of removing himself from the race. he was not just pushed off or stepping out of bounds. i think that is the point.

there doesn't seem to be any dispute that he "dropped out" of the race. once that decision is made it should be final, he shouldn't be able to change his mind once someone points out that the team doesn't have enough finishers to score.

your post shows a lot of ignorance at the situation at hand.

1) if your entire season is about to come to a very disappointing end, i doubt you would be happy. so what, he said f***...oh how terrible!

2) as to your second statement of henner putting the blame on the runners. I'm not going to fully disagree with you there, bc the coach does have influence in his runners' performances. but at the same time, 4 of their guys ran really well...so was it the coaches fault? i dunno.

and also, what do you expect him to say..."kid, give me your chip and i'll run across the line for you"??? u kidding me, of course he going to bitch at them to finish the race.

and you are? wrote:

your post shows a lot of ignorance at the situation at hand.

1) if your entire season is about to come to a very disappointing end, i doubt you would be happy. so what, he said f***...oh how terrible!

2) as to your second statement of henner putting the blame on the runners. I'm not going to fully disagree with you there, bc the coach does have influence in his runners' performances. but at the same time, 4 of their guys ran really well...so was it the coaches fault? i dunno.

and also, what do you expect him to say..."kid, give me your chip and i'll run across the line for you"??? u kidding me, of course he going to bitch at them to finish the race.

Just reporting facts as I saw and heard. I sure would be disappointed, but I wouldn't demean my guys publicly, and frankly I would make certain long before the race that they understand that they are not dropping out of the NCAA championship absent a serious injury/problem. 3 out of 7 dropping out indicates an incredible lack of teamwork, and that falls on the coach. And his failure to DQ the team is a disgrace--do they have an academic honor code at G-town--wonder if Henner instructs his guys to ignore it at their discretion?

"only bitches talk shit" - lil jon

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Thanks for the advice lil johnson.

I look at the first four finishers, and I say "wow"! I realize that only five finished and I say "sh*t"! Then I hear all these rumors about a guy dropping/cutting/jumping back in and I say "no"! What a shame for all involved.

so here's a question....if it is deemed "ok" and legal if he left the course and re-entered at the same point that he departed, would the same hold true if Sally Kipyego with a commanding lead left the course at 4.5k, stood on the side, drank some gatorade, took a power gel, rubbed her legs a bit, watched barringer pass, hop back on the course run down barringer, and win the race?

where is the line drawn with leaving the course? can you leave to get aid and re-enter? could a runner have someone else rub them down on the side of the course before re-entry? seems like there's a lot of gray area here. it's one thing that it is being debated about the guy who finished DFL, but shouldn't whatever ruling is made about him also apply to the first runner in the race and all in between?

very interesting situation.

This thread is what's wrong with letsrun. Bunch of punks with no facts calling for heads. No one has yet made any effort to track down NCAA cross country rules about whether it's legal to step off the course and back on again. (And to the guy above who suggested stepping off the course might be a gray area, I say no. Just outlaw anyone from receiving aid--drinks, goo, a rubdown. What's so hard about that? Classic letsrun reasoning skills on display.)

Lots of supposed eyewitness accounts, probbaly from Hoya faithful or teams who lost out because the Hoyas placed. Lots of heated rhetoric about resignations and the like. Doesn't it feel good when the facts don't get in the way, especially when you KNOW what happened, and nobody is going to convince you otherwise.

I don't blame Henner at all. These kids are division 1 athletes they can take a little yelling. Hugs and pithy inspiration are for high school teams.

Is anyone else having trouble writing messages? I think Gerry broke the message board.

Why would you outlaw someone taking a drink in a long race? Suppose it was 100 degrees and sunny.

I believe that unless the athlete cut the course - that is, did not traverse the designated course fully - he gained no advantage by stopping or stepping off the course, therefore there would be no grounds for disqualification. The question is whether he went back to the point from which he stepped off. If he did, then, he deserves his DFL rather than a DNF.

Under no conditions, however, should a runner be credited with finishing if he does not finish out the designated course.