To the Lydiardites, why am I slower?

DenverRunner wrote:

Everything looks good with the exception of the 5X1200m. Why do that two days before a race? I am sure that you were fatigued by that workout and that's why you didn't race well. The 200s may have been a bit fast as well.

I would have done the 200s on Wednesday, and nothing else hard that week. As a matter of fact, when I set my 10K PR I did a simple 1-2-3-2-1 workout the Tuesday before a Saturday race and went easy the rest of the week.

At the time I was training with the Metro State XC team and we NEVER did a tempo work out on race week.

I actually over looked the tempo, I guess I didnt see it or something but you are correct! Either he should have done that in replace of the 5x1200 or should have cut that out all together because the race can be more of a tempo workout. I think he is doing too much hard stuff and not enough recovery or aerobic enduracne stuff.

From the original post:

Myself and another runner have run almost identical training since May (6 months) and week in week out we run the same quality workouts and same quality races. If she has a bad day I know that theres a 90% chance I'm not going to run what I wanted to.

I'm assuming Runit is also female. Runit? I suppose this could have an impact on the advice you get.

I am pretty sure it is guy because the op said he runs 8k which no girls do for in college. Also he said this:

"Its just hard when you're a minute behind GUYS that you beat a year ago..."

you win, I'm a guy but a female runner and myself both decided to try and follow Lydiard for a season and see the differences. It ends up that we just ran our conference championships and shes exactly where she was a year ago and I'm 1:45 behind a runner who I ran neck and neck with prior to the change....

good point, you're right

runit wrote:

I know its not my aerobic ability because I get pissed at how light my breathing can be at some times during the race. Its like everyone is just running faster than me and I can't keep up. I feel like a fat kid. When I PRed a year ago I could come through mile one at 5:05 and feel relaxed but now 5:20 pace is a slight struggle for the first mile.

Side Note: When I ran my PR I did a 1000s workout at the same effort as I did it a few weeks ago but a few weeks ago I averaged 6 full seconds faster. I don't get how I could be that much faster in the workout but so much slower on race day...it can't be an effort related issue becuase I ran it myself a year ago at the same effort!

Runit. you are right, it's not your aerobic ability that is lacking, and those on this thread who are saying that are wrong.

you have just said what the problem is in the above post: your legs are tired but your breathing is low.

In other words, the fitness is ther, but you are too tired to do any real quality running either in training or in racing.

The big problem is that you lack the confidence to take it easy for long enough to recover.

I have kinda the same issue going on--I'm feeling a lot stronger in workouts than I did last year and the year before, and I can do faster times in the workout with relative ease, but my race times are no faster. Kinda frustrating. Maybe this weekend will change though--my last workout was Tuesday, a tempo, so maybe I'll be rested up for Saturday's race.

Wow ! I had given up on this thread and also have been away for a few days. I feel that I would need more information on back ground and better idea of what our athlete has done over the last year. At present I just do not have the time to answer everything on I get asked on these threads

I have some time right now so I will attempt yours

Why did I make the comment I did ?

Well, when I came to college in the US I found I 'struggled' with the pace of some of the workouts, especially so when I saw Teamates "beat themselves up" to be "top Dog" . I decided to back off a little.

No ! the Coach did not like it at all !!!

After the first 2 workouts where I got left in the dust we had to Race. I killed the Team by over a minute.

After that I ran at a pace I believed would work for me.

An example : One time the Coach gave us a 2 X 2 mile. Where he wanted us to run 2 miles "fast". Jog 5 minutes then repeat.

My Teamates went out like rockets. Running around 10:30 for the first. I rolled in in 11:15. Return journey (into the wind and slightly up hill). They ran 11:30 min. I rolled in 11:40.

They were really tired and struggled the next day.

In addition I had been bought up on Lydiard "Effort" runs so when the Coach gave us what most call now 'Tempo runs".

I ran according to my level at that time.

An example. I could run the average 5 mile Cross country around the 25 minute mark.

The coach gave us 6 mile runs on our Cross Country course.

I would run those in around 36 minutes.

I always finished feeling as though I could have gone a little quicker (If pushed !!).

Bottom line is I never 'won' a workout But in the 4 years I was at College was the only one on our Cross Country Team to make All conference.

Not sure this has clarified my statement.

Cheers

So basically you were playing possum on your workouts at Henderson State because the coach was a tyrant...correct?

Where the Hell does Henderson State fit in ???????.

Nah ! The Coach was not a Tryant, actually the guy concerned was a nice guy he just was not a Distance Coach (by his own admission). He also felt that the top runner should be leading the workouts not playing possum as you put it. After a month or so he did not comment again about where I was in workouts.

What became of you Runit?I read the thread and would like to know what happened?

Geez Jon Boy. I had forgotten about this thread. Its 3 years old. I would almost bet that Runit may not even be running today .. Lets see what happens !!!!!!!!

Let's bump it, Barbara Ann.

"Wouldn't it be nice" if we got a reply from Runit?

I'm guessing that the original Runit didn't register the username, so if we keep bumping the thread, sooner or later someone called "Runit" might post.

yes, i thought of that. long sox.

where are you from?

having this same problem. will running easy really help staleness?

runit wrote:

OK guys, I cut back ran light the whole week consisting of

Monday: 30 minutes light swim in pool

Tuesday: 12 x 200m at 35 with 200m float

Wednesday: 45 minutes easy

Thursday: 5 x 1200m at tempo with 1:1 rest

Friday: 30 minutes easy

Saturday: 20-25 minutes easy + striders

Sunday: 8K RACE 28:05, flat (my PR is 26:37)

and I ran one of my slowest performances of the season...any thoughts? I am about 90 seconds slower in the 8K than a year ago and its really getting to me. I'll answer any specific training questions

When your overtrained and lacking confidence you're not going to race well. It's going to take more than one "cutback" week to set you straight.

Reading through this thread, HRE has it correct. You should be able to run a Lydiard program full of comfortably hard runs and add some light speed and race fairly well. If you can't you are not running the runs correctly....either too slow or too fast.

I didn't read of a transition phase...hills into track work. Why is that left out? That's the most important part of the program.

I did the exact same thing as the guy (or girl?) in the opening post. Dropped my mileage too much, now trying to get back up and salvage a season. I'm going to try running easy miles but I also need a big race soon.

I don't know if this has been considered by anyone else but I think there is a strong possibility that you dropped your mileage too much. Think about it, you went from 70-90 mpw all the way down to what? 45? That's a HUGE drop even with the rise in intensity. A drop like that can easily result in some lost fitness.

I know of a lot of runners who perform like shit when they taper too much, myself included.