Athing has struggled to break 1:59 for years now. They're on completely different tiers. She needs to worry about people like Roisin Willis before she starts thinking about Keely.
Athin’s arrogance caught up with her. She reached the top and believed haphazard training and Kersee’s cocktails would keep her there. She wanted to be Kween while being lazy.
I don't think she was arrogant. But I DO think that going to Kersee ranks among the worst decisions middle distance runner has ever made.
Mu hasn't raced since August. I wondered if she was modeling, but the last reference to modeling on her social media was way back in 2024!
My guess is that she's too out of shape to race indoors and her only door into modeling was to be a celebrity. She is still known to us, but she's last year's news... make that year before last news... for ad agencies. There are probably thousands of young women aspiring to be models. If she's trying to get a modeling gig, she's learning that now.
She is... what?... 23? Her husband is 14 years older than her and probably has a lot of influence on her decisions. Like I said last summer, I think we might have seen the last of Mu on the track.
Athin’s arrogance caught up with her. She reached the top and believed haphazard training and Kersee’s cocktails would keep her there. She wanted to be Kween while being lazy.
I don't think she was arrogant. But I DO think that going to Kersee ranks among the worst decisions middle distance runner has ever made.
Athing Mu's desire for a modeling career influenced her decision to move to Los Angeles.
The only other coach in Los Angeles at the time that was an option to coach a 400/800 runner like her was Jebreh Harris. So if Mu wanted to live in Los Angeles she didn't have many coaching options.
The other good 400/800 coaches were located in parts of the country that didn't have many modeling opportunities. It was Mu's desire to be a model that really messed up her running career.
Mu would have been much better off living in a city with a great 400/800 coach, and then flying occasionally to Los Angeles for modeling gigs.
The only other coach in Los Angeles at the time that was an option to coach a 400/800 runner like her was Jebreh Harris. So if Mu wanted to live in Los Angeles she didn't have many coaching options.
The other good 400/800 coaches were located in parts of the country that didn't have many modeling opportunities. It was Mu's desire to be a model that really messed up her running career.
Mu would have been much better off living in a city with a great 400/800 coach, and then flying occasionally to Los Angeles for modeling gigs.
What a silly post.
There are probably dozens of coaches in the LA area who are very knowledgeable about the 400/800. (Do you have any clue how many colleges/universities there are??)
Now, if she were pressured by Nike to work with a certain 'star' athlete and coach, that would narrow things down quite a bit.
But to say nobody coaches the 4/8 in Socal is absurd.
I hate to feed the troll that runs the site but this is too much, you got me. In refuting the notion that "not many" is ridiculous, you cite... 3 individuals, each legends of the sport?
I'm glad you guys made the site, and hiring JG is the best decision you ever made but damn do I think I'd find better uses of my time if I was in your shoes. Grow up!
Your point is perfect. But it's a lost cause. The internet loves outliers. Sports forums take it many steps further by clutching outliers like the last branch on the way down.
Even if you point out the absurdity every day of the month the same people will apply the same method the following month. It's brutal thinking.
I have no idea how it became accepted in the first place. Somebody makes a perfectly valid big picture point. Then the guy at the next bar stool says, "Oh yeah, what about..."
That guy contributed nothing but an irrelevancy. No kidding not everything is 100%. But somehow the American mindset is to toast that guy instead of throwing him out of the bar on his keister.
I hate to feed the troll that runs the site but this is too much, you got me. In refuting the notion that "not many" is ridiculous, you cite... 3 individuals, each legends of the sport?
I'm glad you guys made the site, and hiring JG is the best decision you ever made but damn do I think I'd find better uses of my time if I was in your shoes. Grow up!
I'll take rojo's side on this one. I'd prefer if rojo opened his post with something more respectful than telling someone in all caps that his post was ridiculous (I think we can disagree without belittling one another, and I'd like to see him set a good example as a site owner), but otherwise I think rojo's post was fine.
The claim rojo objected to was: "not many 800meter runners last for more than a 3-4 year window. after awhile you get burned out."
Rojo only gave three examples (Rudisha, Kipketer, and Clark), but those examples were merely for illustrative purposes; that's apparent because he listed their annual progressions. He added "Should I go on and on?" to suggest that there are more athletes he could have listed. Indeed, there are.
Just off the top of my head, I can think of Johnny Gray, Maria Mutola, Ajeé Wilson, Raevyn Rogers, Nick Symmonds, Brenda Martinez, Clayton Murphy, Duane Solomon, Nicole Teter, and Sammy Watson. That's an additional 10 to rojo's 3, for a baker's dozen. I could probably double that number with just a little online searching to help jog my memory. I suppose the question is what counts as "many."
The objection might be that only those who are at/near the top in their country (or better) and have sponsorships last as long as the athletes named above did/have, but the same can be said for other events. At some point, athletes have to make a tough career decision if they don't have a realistic chance of making a national team and/or if they aren't able to earn a decent income in the sport. But those athletes who are barely getting by shouldn't be compared to Mu anyway. She should only be compared to the top athletes.
Based on what I've read and heard from Mu's interviews, it isn't the 800m event itself that's the cause of her issues. It's been dealing with the pressure that comes from her prodigious talent and being Olympic Champion, feeling that she missed out on the normal things that teenagers and young adults get to do, and mentally recovering from the disaster at the 2024 US Olympic Trials.
Yes, the 800m is a brutal event, and if Mu focused more on the 400m, it might be easier for her mentally because she could just stay in her lane and not worry about her long legs getting tangled with other runners. But I think her biggest issue is the burden of expectations.
Only time will tell if Mu gets over her issues. I'm still hoping she does.
Ive said this here many times, but running the 800m just sucks in general. the training is brutal, the races are gutwrenching, its overall just REALLY exhausting mentally to do it again and again and again. no matter how talented you are.
not many 800meter runners last for more than a 3-4 year window. after awhile you get burned out.
as someone that ran the 800m in HS and college I fully understand if shes done.
WHAT. A. RIDICULOUS. POST.
David Rudisha disagrees.
2006 1:46.3hA 6 Nairobi 1 Jul 2007 1:44.15 1 Bruxelles 14 Sep 2008 1:43.72 2 Oslo 6 Jun 2009 1:42.01 AR 1 Rieti 6 Sep 2010 1:41.01 WR 1 Rieti 29 Aug 2011 1:41.33 1 Rieti 10 Sep 2012 1:40.91 WR 1 London 9 Aug 2013 1:43.87 1 Doha 10 May 2014 1:42.98 5 Monaco 18 Jul 2015 1:43.58 1 New York NY 13 Jun 2016 1:42.15 1 Rio de Janeiro 15 Aug 2017 1:44.90 2 Kingston 10 Jun
So does Wilson Kipketer.
1987 1:48.5hA 1 Nakuru 27 Jun 1988 1:47.0hA 1h1 Nairobi 17 Jun 1989 1:47.2hA 2h Nairobi 13 Oct 1990 1:45.7hA 1h Nairobi 20 Jul 1991 1:46.19 1r2 Malmö/S 5 Aug 1992 1:45.62 2 Helsinki 30 Jun 1993 1:45.46 1 Lappeenranta 27 Mar 1994 1:43.29 1 Oslo 22 Jul 1995 1:42.87 1 Monaco 25 Jul 1996 1:41.83 1 Rieti 1 Sep 1997 1:41.11 AR WR 1 Köln 24 Aug 1998 1:43.18 2 Zürich 12 Aug 1999 1:42.27 1 Bruxelles 3 Sep 2000 1:43.35 3 Bruxelles 25 Aug 2002 1:42.32 NR30 1 Rieti 8 Sep 2003 1:43.28 4 Bruxelles 5 Sep 2004 1:43.88 1 Roma 2 Jul
And Joetta Clark.
1982 2:06.49A 2 Provo UT 5 Jun 1983 2:02.28 1 Houston TX 4 Jun 1984 2:02.60 1 Eugene OR 2 Jun 1985 2:02.28 6 Kobe 3 Sep 1986 2:02.81 2 Turku 3 Jul 1987 1:59.92 3 Zagreb 19 Jul 1988 2:00.83 2h2 Seoul 24 Sep 1989 1:59.83 4 Lausanne 27 Jun 1990 2:00.35 3rB Zürich 15 Aug 1991 2:00.98 4 Lausanne 10 Jul 1992 1:58.06 7 Barcelona 3 Aug 1993 1:58.46 5 Zürich 4 Aug 1994 1:58.39 4 Zürich 17 Aug 1995 1:58.94 3 Monaco 25 Jul 1996 1:58.22 2 Atlanta GA 17 Jun 1997 1:58.48 5 Monaco 16 Aug 1998 1:57.84 3 Monaco 8 Aug 1999 1:59.79 6 Monaco 4 Aug 2000 1:59.49 3 Sacramento CA 23 Jul
The only other coach in Los Angeles at the time that was an option to coach a 400/800 runner like her was Jebreh Harris. So if Mu wanted to live in Los Angeles she didn't have many coaching options.
The other good 400/800 coaches were located in parts of the country that didn't have many modeling opportunities. It was Mu's desire to be a model that really messed up her running career.
Mu would have been much better off living in a city with a great 400/800 coach, and then flying occasionally to Los Angeles for modeling gigs.
What a silly post.
There are probably dozens of coaches in the LA area who are very knowledgeable about the 400/800. (Do you have any clue how many colleges/universities there are??)
Now, if she were pressured by Nike to work with a certain 'star' athlete and coach, that would narrow things down quite a bit.
But to say nobody coaches the 4/8 in Socal is absurd.
No, YOU are the one who is clueless. I live in SoCal and I’m well aware of who all the coaches are in the Los Angeles area, so I'm going to educate your stupid ass.
Most college coaches don't coach pro runners. If you knew anything about the sport you would know that.
And when Mu moved to LA none of the college coaches in the Los Angeles area had experience coaching a 400/800 runner at a world class level except for Jebreh Harris.
And there certainly weren't "dozens" of coaches in Los Angeles capable of coaching an Olympic gold medalist in the 800 and 4x400. The fact that you think that's true means you're an idiot.
You really have no idea what you're talking about. Everything you wrote was complete nonsense.
Ive said this here many times, but running the 800m just sucks in general. the training is brutal, the races are gutwrenching, its overall just REALLY exhausting mentally to do it again and again and again. no matter how talented you are.
not many 800meter runners last for more than a 3-4 year window. after awhile you get burned out.
as someone that ran the 800m in HS and college I fully understand if shes done.
Having been for some part of my career and 800m runner, both points are true, but there are plenty of 800m runners that have long careers. In addition to some cited already, I'd note Sebastian Coe who ran a UK record for 800m in 1977 and who won the European Championship in the same event in 1986.
An even longer career was Johnny Gray who ran the 800m in the Olympics in 1984, 1988, 1982 and 1996 (on his 36th birthday). In 2000 he what was then the fastest 800m ever by a masters athlete with a 1:8.81 at the US Indoor Championships.
Ive said this here many times, but running the 800m just sucks in general. the training is brutal, the races are gutwrenching, its overall just REALLY exhausting mentally to do it again and again and again. no matter how talented you are.
not many 800meter runners last for more than a 3-4 year window. after awhile you get burned out.
as someone that ran the 800m in HS and college I fully understand if shes done.
WHAT. A. RIDICULOUS. POST.
David Rudisha disagrees.
Someone says "800 training is brutal, not many runners last more than 3-4 years," your response is to name three 800 runners famous for their longevity, and you think that proves anything? That kind of quality track analysis is why I keep coming back to these forums
Kersee sticking her in a 5:00 paced 1500m to “work on running in a pack” will go down as one of the stupidest pro coaching decisions ever. Talent doesn’t go away but can definitely be fumbled by lack of reasonable direction.
What are your coaching credentials, experiences? I know what Bobby Kersee’s are, but don’t know anything about yours. Hindsight is 20/20. I would trust his assessments, analysis, and judgment over a random commenter. I’ve coached over half a century. There are reasons that experienced coaches use approaches you are not familiar with. Not everything is done formulaically like Runners World advice like “5 Ways to Run a Faster 5K”. Every athlete is different. A professional runner I coached needed a radically different approach: NOT train, and she improved from it because that is what she needed for that period of time. She had been overtrained and was exhausted. Posing as someone more knowledgeable than Kersee is implied bragging. What are your qualifications, critic?
bizarre choices from kersee last year, but the more that comes out on her, maybe she was mentally gone last year, and he was just willing to try anything to get her to a meet, and try to get the juices flowing. who knows.
i don't expect to see her again. maybe a half hearted comeback attempt at some point. but this sport isnt' for the feint of heart.
I've been critical of Kersee but but it's pretty clear whatever Mu was dealing last year went beyond just coaching issues. Running 2:03 at Pre last year was a clear sign she wasn't committed to training, and there's nothing any coach can do if their athlete is mentally checked out like that.
I hope she comes back but she needs to get to a good place mentally. Leaving LA was a good first step, hopefully she can reset and discover her love for the sport again.
Re: “there's nothing any coach can do if their athlete is mentally checked out like that” is not correct. Athletes have the right, first and foremost, to make their own decisions about their lives and their careers, and no matter how good Athing has been in the past, nobody on this forum gets to make her decisions for her. If she or any other athlete in her position wanted to, they could work with a sport psychologist who could help the, develop specific skills that help them get stronger in ways which are beneficial to them. That is a choice, though, and it is their choice alone, not a choice of commenters on this forum. Other than that, coaches can become better coaches by reading about prevention and recovery from professional burnout, which has parallels to athletic burnout. Also, they can read “The Cost of Caring” by Christina Maslach, the pioneer of the field of professional burnout. Next, get Charles Garfield’s “Peak Performance”, which has a LOT of psychological development exercises that require no more than a pencil and paper. I have had runners from middle school to professional level opt to use some of these to help them develop a broad range of specific psychological traits relating to motivation, sense of purpose, specific kinds of focusing skills, and more.
Athletic burnout can be diagnosed by a professional qualified to assess it. I have no idea if that is Athing’s situation and I do not think it is fair to speculate since that may just be gossip. It is possible for athletes to have other priorities in their lives despite having been as good as they were. What Athing chooses to do is up to her. I can tell you with certainty that she is a good person who keeps wise company with tremendous experience. Bobby Kersee is extremely knowledgable about exercise physiology, biomechanics, and motivating athletes to perform at their best. Not every athlete is going to do their best with some coaches, since coaching and being coached is a relationship. There are people who can provide guidance that benefits Athing the person, not just Athing the runner, and if you really respect her prior achievements. and want her to do well, Athing the person needs to be respected as a person first. If she runs, she runs. It’s her life and her choice.
There are probably dozens of coaches in the LA area who are very knowledgeable about the 400/800. (Do you have any clue how many colleges/universities there are??)
Now, if she were pressured by Nike to work with a certain 'star' athlete and coach, that would narrow things down quite a bit.
But to say nobody coaches the 4/8 in Socal is absurd.
No, YOU are the one who is clueless. I live in SoCal and I’m well aware of who all the coaches are in the Los Angeles area, so I'm going to educate your stupid ass.
Most college coaches don't coach pro runners. If you knew anything about the sport you would know that.
And when Mu moved to LA none of the college coaches in the Los Angeles area had experience coaching a 400/800 runner at a world class level except for Jebreh Harris.
And there certainly weren't "dozens" of coaches in Los Angeles capable of coaching an Olympic gold medalist in the 800 and 4x400. The fact that you think that's true means you're an idiot.
You really have no idea what you're talking about. Everything you wrote was complete nonsense.
i think the "missing world class coach" argument is better applied to men, where an aspiring olympic athlete would need to be able to run 1:4x-low and survive rounds at global events. elite women run more like 1:55-2:00. am i crazy or could about any LA-area college coach handle that on down to d3 schools like PP and CMS? they can get their kids to 1:49 or so. which would more than suffice.
i buy more the "name brand" or "aspiring model" theories where she wouldn't go with just anyone.
also, they had her doing USATF/AAU/NSAF nationals from like age 11. you can sometimes look up age 15-22 and be like where did my childhood go? at which point you are either truly happy with your sport (and ok with the tradeoffs you made) or upset you just wasted your youth and didn't have a ton of fun. childhood buddy of mine was all-state soccer and rewrote our distance record book. ended up juco and at the end of that was like i hate organized sports and don't ask me to play on your adult teams. and we're still buddies but childhood prodigies can take a sharp turn like that.
i still think she wasn't the ideal choice to leave school early, times and talent or not, because she doesn't seem fully dedicated and sure of her direction. if you look at her results, she had about 2 good years out of the nest post-college. her trials debacle would have been roughly senior year.