Mantz's 5k pace is 63.2 Mantz's 1500 pace is 58.1 Assuming on the differences of those two his best 400 would probably be mid-high 53 He ran 1:56 in HS same year he ran 4:07 so he's an endurance guy, but not a slowpoke.
I also doubt the idea Salazar couldn't break 60 considering he ran 13:11 and 27:25, also training under the Oregon system, doing workouts like the 30/30 and 30/40 drill
He ran the 1500m equivalent of a 4:00 mile. That means he could have broken 60, four times without resting.
30/30 is similar to 60.
Alberto never ran anywhere near to 3:42 in a 1500. I dont even recall him running a 4:02 mile.
As far as those Oregon workouts you're citing none of them indicate anything. The 30/40 workout was rarely done, maybe 2-3 times a year max. It was a strength workout anyway.
30/30s were done often, but is was mostly as a half-assed workout anyway, typically Mondays after an easy run, but only 8-12 of them. I'll admit that Dellinger once told me if you did 16 of them he thought you were ready to run 4:00., but I thought he was being generous with that assessment.
Bill watched me do 20 30/30s during marathon training. (29.2/30) and told me Pre did 24 of them once. I said that I heard about that and thought that I could've done 24 if I wanted to show off, but thats not my style.
This post was edited 8 minutes after it was posted.
I'll never forget the 2023 5000 US champs. Mantz was leading with 1K left. A step behind the leaders with 800 to go. He finished in 1:57 while Abdi Nur finished in 1:51. Slipped from 1st to 10th over the last K.
He's got incredible strength. But his kick is awful compared to track stars. He could train his whole life for the 400 and never break 50.
Rather than having an awful kick, and like you said, there are guys on the track that are just better. Nur’s 5000m PR is 7 seconds faster than Mantz’s, and he’s going to have that edge no matter how the race plays out. Ingebrigtsen has a big kick in the 5000m, but not in the 1500m. Same guy, so does he have a great kick or does he not?
Something interesting in my view related to this thread is that Mantz almost never does fast reps 400m or shorter. He doesn't even do strides. I remember reading somewhere that Eyestone heard he was doing strides and told him to stop. I went back and looked at some of his workouts before his last true indoor season in early 2022 and he did stuff like:
He ran the 1500m equivalent of a 4:00 mile. That means he could have broken 60, four times without resting.
30/30 is similar to 60.
Alberto never ran anywhere near to 3:42 in a 1500. I dont even recall him running a 4:02 mile.
As far as those Oregon workouts you're citing none of them indicate anything. The 30/40 workout was rarely done, maybe 2-3 times a year max. It was a strength workout anyway.
30/30s were done often, but is was mostly as a half-assed workout anyway, typically Mondays after an easy run, but only 8-12 of them. I'll admit that Dellinger once told me if you did 16 of them he thought you were ready to run 4:00., but I thought he was being generous with that assessment.
Bill watched me do 20 30/30s during marathon training. (29.2/30) and told me Pre did 24 of them once. I said that I heard about that and thought that I could've done 24 if I wanted to show off, but thats not my style.
I saw that time for him and I have a good memory. This is from AI:
“Alberto Salazar 3:42" refers to his personal best time in the 1500 meters, which he set in 1982”
I recall Dave Bedford running 4:00, so it’s not out of the realm of possibility for Salazar to run that fast.
In your last paragraph, of course you meant 30/40 and not 30/30. I did know that like the 30th Avenue Drill, the 30/40 workout was rarely run.
Alberto never ran anywhere near to 3:42 in a 1500. I dont even recall him running a 4:02 mile.
As far as those Oregon workouts you're citing none of them indicate anything. The 30/40 workout was rarely done, maybe 2-3 times a year max. It was a strength workout anyway.
30/30s were done often, but is was mostly as a half-assed workout anyway, typically Mondays after an easy run, but only 8-12 of them. I'll admit that Dellinger once told me if you did 16 of them he thought you were ready to run 4:00., but I thought he was being generous with that assessment.
Bill watched me do 20 30/30s during marathon training. (29.2/30) and told me Pre did 24 of them once. I said that I heard about that and thought that I could've done 24 if I wanted to show off, but thats not my style.
I saw that time for him and I have a good memory. This is from AI:
“Alberto Salazar 3:42" refers to his personal best time in the 1500 meters, which he set in 1982”
I recall Dave Bedford running 4:00, so it’s not out of the realm of possibility for Salazar to run that fast.
In your last paragraph, of course you meant 30/40 and not 30/30. I did know that like the 30th Avenue Drill, the 30/40 workout was rarely run.
Magnificently stupid and dishonest to rely on Artificial Ignoramous. What AI actually says is: "He did not run a time of 3:42 in a major race, as this is a fast time for a 1,500-meter or a mile event, not his primary distance events"
Alberto ran a 3:44.6 1500 in 1979.
And you said that "of course I meant 30/40 not 30/30?" How can you be so willfully stupid? I told you 30/30s because that's the workout I ran on September 9th 1985. And Bill Dellinger struck up a conversation with me on the track afterwards. Are you telling me I don't know what I ran? Did Dellinger say something different?
Don't tell me about what you read on Dyestat. You're getting it from the horses mouth. That should be good enough for you. Don't ever attempt to speak for me again.
I saw that time for him and I have a good memory. This is from AI:
“Alberto Salazar 3:42" refers to his personal best time in the 1500 meters, which he set in 1982”
I recall Dave Bedford running 4:00, so it’s not out of the realm of possibility for Salazar to run that fast.
In your last paragraph, of course you meant 30/40 and not 30/30. I did know that like the 30th Avenue Drill, the 30/40 workout was rarely run.
Magnificently stupid and dishonest to rely on Artificial Ignoramous. What AI actually says is: "He did not run a time of 3:42 in a major race, as this is a fast time for a 1,500-meter or a mile event, not his primary distance events"
Alberto ran a 3:44.6 1500 in 1979.
And you said that "of course I meant 30/40 not 30/30?" How can you be so willfully stupid? I told you 30/30s because that's the workout I ran on September 9th 1985. And Bill Dellinger struck up a conversation with me on the track afterwards. Are you telling me I don't know what I ran? Did Dellinger say something different?
Don't tell me about what you read on Dyestat. You're getting it from the horses mouth. That should be good enough for you. Don't ever attempt to speak for me again.
How much difference is there between a 3:44.6 1500 and a 4:02 mile converted? Half a second. A whole second?
The simple fact is that nobody can run four laps at essentially same pace as they run one lap. A maximal effort at 400 meters is going to generate a pretty high lactate level. The only way it wouldn't is if you didn't give maximal effort. And if you have a high lactate level... you ain't running three more laps.
Magnificently stupid and dishonest to rely on Artificial Ignoramous. What AI actually says is: "He did not run a time of 3:42 in a major race, as this is a fast time for a 1,500-meter or a mile event, not his primary distance events"
Alberto ran a 3:44.6 1500 in 1979.
And you said that "of course I meant 30/40 not 30/30?" How can you be so willfully stupid? I told you 30/30s because that's the workout I ran on September 9th 1985. And Bill Dellinger struck up a conversation with me on the track afterwards. Are you telling me I don't know what I ran? Did Dellinger say something different?
Don't tell me about what you read on Dyestat. You're getting it from the horses mouth. That should be good enough for you. Don't ever attempt to speak for me again.
How much difference is there between a 3:44.6 1500 and a 4:02 mile converted? Half a second. A whole second?
The simple fact is that nobody can run four laps at essentially same pace as they run one lap. A maximal effort at 400 meters is going to generate a pretty high lactate level. The only way it wouldn't is if you didn't give maximal effort. And if you have a high lactate level... you ain't running three more laps.
Do you even read the crap you wrote? I never said anything like your crazy rant. Where do you people come up with this stuff? Alberto ran 3:44.6. End of story.
I saw that time for him and I have a good memory. This is from AI:
“Alberto Salazar 3:42" refers to his personal best time in the 1500 meters, which he set in 1982”
I recall Dave Bedford running 4:00, so it’s not out of the realm of possibility for Salazar to run that fast.
In your last paragraph, of course you meant 30/40 and not 30/30. I did know that like the 30th Avenue Drill, the 30/40 workout was rarely run.
Magnificently stupid and dishonest to rely on Artificial Ignoramous. What AI actually says is: "He did not run a time of 3:42 in a major race, as this is a fast time for a 1,500-meter or a mile event, not his primary distance events"
Alberto ran a 3:44.6 1500 in 1979.
And you said that "of course I meant 30/40 not 30/30?" How can you be so willfully stupid? I told you 30/30s because that's the workout I ran on September 9th 1985. And Bill Dellinger struck up a conversation with me on the track afterwards. Are you telling me I don't know what I ran? Did Dellinger say something different?
Don't tell me about what you read on Dyestat. You're getting it from the horses mouth. That should be good enough for you. Don't ever attempt to speak for me again.
Lighten up. OK, I guess there was a 30/30 workout but the famous workout was 30/40. The latter would result in 70 second laps the hard way. How did 30/30 work?
I heard the same story about Pre maintaining the workout for more laps than anyone else and I’m positive it was 30/40.
He ran the 1500m equivalent of a 4:00 mile. That means he could have broken 60, four times without resting.
30/30 is similar to 60.
Alberto never ran anywhere near to 3:42 in a 1500. I dont even recall him running a 4:02 mile.
As far as those Oregon workouts you're citing none of them indicate anything. The 30/40 workout was rarely done, maybe 2-3 times a year max. It was a strength workout anyway.
30/30s were done often, but is was mostly as a half-assed workout anyway, typically Mondays after an easy run, but only 8-12 of them. I'll admit that Dellinger once told me if you did 16 of them he thought you were ready to run 4:00., but I thought he was being generous with that assessment.
Bill watched me do 20 30/30s during marathon training. (29.2/30) and told me Pre did 24 of them once. I said that I heard about that and thought that I could've done 24 if I wanted to show off, but thats not my style.
I believe Alberto did run a 4:02 mile; I don't know when and where he did it, but I am pretty sure he did it because he told me in front of a group of people. He wasn't saying it to brag, he said it in a self-deprecating way to indicate his lack of speed. I suspect he ran that time either in college or early in his career because he also stated he could run a little faster than that around the time he ran the AR in 5000. In the 90s, prior to nop, Alberto was active on the clinic / speaking circuit where he openly spoke about everything, Btw, probably less than half of track meet results from the 1980s are online. I've run in meets where the results where kelp on clip board and only the top 3 were published in the local newspaper and God only know where rest of the results are.
Park City is a lot further than 30 miles away from Logan, Utah where Utah State is located. Try over 100 miles. Anyways, Mantz lives down in the Provo/Orem area where BYU is located which is 125 miles from Logan and 45 miles from Park City.
Why must you continually lie about everything? Is your life that much of a disappointment?