And Lukas Verzbicas would have beaten all the earlier generations. He owned cross country while rarely pushing himself to his limit. Sub 4 miler, 8:29 two miles on track, and
King Ches, who also would likely have beaten the prior generations, never beat Verzbicas.
Lukas Verzbicas and King Ches weren't close to Reina's 14:36 course record, even though they were clearly superior high school runners. Obviously the course was longer when they ran than when Reina ran in 1985.
And Lukas Verzbicas would have beaten all the earlier generations. He owned cross country while rarely pushing himself to his limit. Sub 4 miler, 8:29 two miles on track, and
King Ches, who also would likely have beaten the prior generations, never beat Verzbicas.
Lukas Verzbicas and King Ches weren't close to Reina's 14:36 course record, even though they were clearly superior high school runners. Obviously the course was longer when they ran than when Reina ran in 1985.
Without actual proof from someone that measured that course in 1985 I'm not taking the word of a letsrun poster.
It's ridiculous to say a course is short because a runner didn't break a course record. Was NXN longer the week before because Lil S's course record wasn't broken?
Ignore reina. Who do we think has the record? Solinskys or gouchers 14:41, fouts 14:50, hunters 14:55, Spencer's 15:10?
On the same course, 30s variation year to year based on course conditions is pretty normal. Miss your one chance to have great conditions and you don't get the record
Please correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe Reina ran 8:58 for 3200m his senior year. We have seen countless runners lightyears better than that constantly finish around 14:55-15:10 on Balboa.
Do I think Reina wins today by 34s? Absolutely not.
The course has changed materially.
We haven't seen "countless runners" better than 2x NCAA champ, 7x SEC champ, 8x All American and 1992 US Olympian - Reuben Reina!
Without actual proof from someone that measured that course in 1985 I'm not taking the word of a letsrun poster.
It's highly unlikely that the Balboa Park course was professionally measured in 1985. If they had professionally measured it, then they would have made it a full 5k, which it wasn't. Back then I don't think that they were as concerned with course records as they were in who won the race. The whole idea of xc back then (which some people still believe in today) is that "place is more important than time."
You can see the Balboa Park course changes for yourself by watching the video on YouTube of the 1985 race and compare it to a video of any of the 2010 - 2023 races.
Ignore reina. Who do we think has the record? Solinskys or gouchers 14:41, fouts 14:50, hunters 14:55, Spencer's 15:10?
They ran on several different variations of the course.
1985 - 1987 was a different course than 1988 - 2003, which was a different course than 2004 - 2023, which was a different course than 2024, which was a different course than 2025.
I'm not sure why there are some posters here who imagine that it's impossible for a course to change over a 40 year period.
Please correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe Reina ran 8:58 for 3200m his senior year. We have seen countless runners lightyears better than that constantly finish around 14:55-15:10 on Balboa.
Do I think Reina wins today by 34s? Absolutely not.
The course has changed materially.
We haven't seen "countless runners" better than 2x NCAA champ, 7x SEC champ, 8x All American and 1992 US Olympian - Reuben Reina!
Reuben Reina ran at Balboa Park in high school. Not one of the things that you mentioned happened in high school.
Please correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe Reina ran 8:58 for 3200m his senior year. We have seen countless runners lightyears better than that constantly finish around 14:55-15:10 on Balboa.
Do I think Reina wins today by 34s? Absolutely not.
The course has changed materially.
We haven't seen "countless runners" better than 2x NCAA champ, 7x SEC champ, 8x All American and 1992 US Olympian - Reuben Reina!
Without actual proof from someone that measured that course in 1985 I'm not taking the word of a letsrun poster.
It's ridiculous to say a course is short because a runner didn't break a course record. Was NXN longer the week before because Lil S's course record wasn't broken?
You can watch the race videos or see the course maps that have been posted. It's slightly different now than in the 80s and several turns are sharp compared to gradual. Combined with the inferior footing has resulted in Balboa being slower.
Please correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe Reina ran 8:58 for 3200m his senior year. We have seen countless runners lightyears better than that constantly finish around 14:55-15:10 on Balboa.
Do I think Reina wins today by 34s? Absolutely not.
The course has changed materially.
We haven't seen "countless runners" better than 2x NCAA champ, 7x SEC champ, 8x All American and 1992 US Olympian - Reuben Reina!
Your premise is nonsense.
Lol. Your premise is even sillier.
You don’t get to make rewrite your HS career based on your pro career.
We haven't seen "countless runners" better than 2x NCAA champ, 7x SEC champ, 8x All American and 1992 US Olympian - Reuben Reina!
Your premise is nonsense.
Lol. Your premise is even sillier.
You don’t get to make rewrite your HS career based on your pro career.
Reina was 25s slower than LV in HS over 2 miles.
Nobody is rewriting his high school career. He was the national xc champion in high school same as LV.
His post high school career proves he was very talented. Based on his resume, which is way better than LV’s, it’s not a surprise that he ran very fast at Balboa Park.
You don’t get to make rewrite your HS career based on your pro career.
Reina was 25s slower than LV in HS over 2 miles.
Nobody is rewriting his high school career. He was the national xc champion in high school same as LV.
His post high school career proves he was very talented. Based on his resume, which is way better than LV’s, it’s not a surprise that he ran very fast at Balboa Park.
Oh he had a better resume than someone who got paralyzed at 19? Wow he must be the best runner ever! His high school resume is worse. Adjust for the shoes and he’s still a worse miler, worse 2 miler, and has one fewer footlocker title.
If we’re allowed to inflate someone’s high school abilities because of what they did in college (the GF special) or as a pro, why didn’t Grant Fisher come close to that record. He was better than Reina at all 3 levels, and has a considerably higher ceiling
Nobody is rewriting his high school career. He was the national xc champion in high school same as LV.
His post high school career proves he was very talented. Based on his resume, which is way better than LV’s, it’s not a surprise that he ran very fast at Balboa Park.
Oh he had a better resume than someone who got paralyzed at 19? Wow he must be the best runner ever! His high school resume is worse. Adjust for the shoes and he’s still a worse miler, worse 2 miler, and has one fewer footlocker title.
If we’re allowed to inflate someone’s high school abilities because of what they did in college (the GF special) or as a pro, why didn’t Grant Fisher come close to that record. He was better than Reina at all 3 levels, and has a considerably higher ceiling
Never said he was the best runner ever. Just that he was very talented and his time isn’t a fluke.