He has never won a DL, but podiumed a couple of times (2nd in Lausanne 2024, 3rd in Zurich 2024, 3rd in Brussels 2024, all in the 1500. His highest ranking in a mile race in DL is 4th from Prefontaine Classic this year)
Jakob isn't much older than Hocker, but Hocker also was not doing serious mileage when he was 12 years old.
that's a good point. when Jakob was already running 3:30.16 in 2018(without superspike, going from DFL to 5th in the last lap), Hocker didn't even have results on IAAF and barely broke 4 in 2020.
Speaking of, Hocker's oldest results on IAAF goes back to 2019 (the year he turned 18). Jakob's goes back to 2014 (the year he turned 14). Wikipedia says Hocker ran 4:36 in the mile as an eight grader, but besides that, I haven't been able to find any older results. Same with Nuguse and Kessler, no older results on their IAAF profile than from the year they turned 18. Are there anywhere you can find older results/PBs/SBs for American runners? I would love to know.
Cole Hocker is a speed demon and therefore he needs to focus on the 1500m/Mile. These events are the best chance he has at holding any records on the track. I bet Cole Hocker can run a 48 flat 400 right now. The guy has speed
He ran 3:27 closing in 39.6. Sure, he had a rabbit the whole way that day in Jakob, but he had so much left at the end that he could've potentially ran 3:26.xx with a faster third lap. Hardly seems impossible that he could get a little bit fitter two years later.
Now it's true that Hocker isn't the type of runner who's going to maximize his performance in a setup where he's the one doing the work after the pacer drops. Any possibility of a world record depends on Jakob getting back to his top form and making these races super fast, and that's a huge question mark right now. But if that happens and we regularly see 3:26/27 paced races on the circuit again, I think there's a fairly good chance somebody runs 3:25 at some point. Between Jakob, Hocker, Laros, and Phanuel Koech, the talent level is there.
The problem is that Hocker is hyper-focused on global champs. Given the US is so strong and he wants to double that means he has to be ready to go at both USAs and Worlds. Since he doesn’t typically race between the two events, there’s really little window for him to run fast. So he could change his approach and just do a record attempt in between. Next year also is a golden opportunity where he’s qualified for Ultimate Champs, and doesn’t have anything tentpole to focus on from at least April-August. He could chase a time in August without much risk.
Because when he ran 3:27.65 after rounds, he beat a 3:26.7 guy and a world champion, despite having to interrupt his kick when Jakob cut him off.
You do understand that Hocker is never going to get more pacing than he did in that 3:27, right? You do understand that Jakob ran 3:26 on almost half as much pacing, right?
You do understand that Hocker is never going to get more pacing than he did in that 3:27, right? You do understand that Jakob ran 3:26 on almost half as much pacing, right?
Not almost half as much. Jakob got nearly 1100m there and ran under 1503m. Cole had his stop-start thing that cost him a couple tenths, but yes he got lots of drafting if slightly imperfect pacing. A Habz like situation where Cole gets 1000m+ and a rail run could result in 3:26-hi/3:27-lo I bet.
Last year Hocker mentioned that 5k training made him much stronger in the 1500m, which he clearly was at the Olympics. But, he wilted in the 5k at the trials. This year he was stronger still, making it through nationals in both the 1500m and 5000m, and he looked quite fresh in the 5000m finals at World's, even after already running three races. Hocker had two solid years of improvement, and may have a couple more big improvement years on the horizon. I would not use the past to put limits on him.
Does anyone think Hocker realistically has a shot at 3:25.xx? Seems completely outside the realm of possibility to me. He's a great talent and competitor but he's not El Guerrouj.
Who knows. Did you "realistically" think Cole had a shot to win the Olympic 1500 in a record time of 3:27?
He needs to outrun Big Bird in a 1500m and 10,000m if he wants to be considered the greatest...it would take a new world record in both to outrun sesame street's own Big Bird to do it.
If you were in Hocker’s shoes, what would you prioritize most for the 2026 season? Which would mean more to his legacy? Getting a gold in both 1500 and 5k at world ultimate champs or breaking the 1500m WR?
I love how everyone who never ran at the elite world class level just throws around the idea of breaking world records like it's a check box of something to do. Cole Hocker is a two time global champion in two different events, and he still gets shade thrown on him for "not racing enough and or winning more". WTF!!! It would seem logical for him to focus on a world record attempt at some event this upcoming season. If I'm not mistaken, he ran a 7:23 indoor 3k at Millrose last winter which was under the previous WR, and it was an off event for him. That being said, he has the potential to chase a WR in the 1500/Mile/2000/3000 outdoors in 2026. Does he get any of them? Who knows. I'm sure he will plan out a few races to try. If for some reason he doesn't, having an Olympic Gold medal and a World Championship Gold Medal aren't bad things to have on a resume. I'm sure Cole sleeps pretty good at night having "checked those two boxes".
You are absolutely right and I actually have typed a long defense in the other thread on why I think there is a strong case to be made that as it stands right now, Cole Hocker is the GOAT.
(For Jakob those numbers are: 3:26.73 - 3:28.24 - 3:27.83)
edit: might as well add the two other sub-3:30 guys from Paris, Kessler and Laros
Kessler: 3:31.53 - 3:29.45 - 3:30.47
Laros: 3:31.25 - 3:29.54 - 3:29.20
Yes and history has been littered with races in big-time spots where guys never ever ran faster.
Look at the London 2012 800m.
Rudisha 1.40.91 - never even broke 1.42.0 again.
Amos 1.41.73 - started doping* but still couldn't better that performance
Kitum 1.42.53 - didn't come within a second of this ever again.
Duane Solomon 1.42.82 - nope.
Nick Symmonds 1.42.95 - came close in Brussels a season later but again, couldn't better this.
Mo Amman 1.43.20 - he did beat this performance which was a PR at the time. He did also dope so impossible to tell if he actually did really beat this performance (or even if this one was legit)
Abubaker Kaki 1.43.32 - even though he did run faster lifetime before London, he never ran faster after
Andrew Osagie - 1.43.77 - nope.
So your top 5 never bettered their performances from this race, despite continuing careers of relevancy - Rudisha even won another Olympic title and a WC's after this. Point is, and to yours, if that podium (heck even Jakob) never bettered their performances from that day then it really wouldn't be that crazy. Everyones career best performance happens somewhere - it's not surprising if it comes in an Olympic final where the motivation, drive and desperation can never be surpassed. Hard to see Josh Kerr ever running faster than 3.27.79. Hocker? As I said earlier, it feels like with him it's got to come in a big time championship race but how long are we expecting Jakob to drag out championship finals in 2.47.2 and could Hocker ever top the drive he had in that Paris final? Honestly the best bet to improve on his Paris time from that podium is Nuguse. He runs on the circuit a lot, runs the style of race on the circuit that would lead to a sub 3.27.80 - but still, these types of performances are still not easy to come by. As for Jakob? That's just a big unknown right now. Maybe he does want to focus on the 5000m and going after that record asap - that might mean the 1500/mile never quite reaches the heights of the last 2 seasons.
(For Jakob those numbers are: 3:26.73 - 3:28.24 - 3:27.83)
edit: might as well add the two other sub-3:30 guys from Paris, Kessler and Laros
Kessler: 3:31.53 - 3:29.45 - 3:30.47
Laros: 3:31.25 - 3:29.54 - 3:29.20
Yes and history has been littered with races in big-time spots where guys never ever ran faster.
Look at the London 2012 800m.
Rudisha 1.40.91 - never even broke 1.42.0 again.
Amos 1.41.73 - started doping* but still couldn't better that performance
Kitum 1.42.53 - didn't come within a second of this ever again.
Duane Solomon 1.42.82 - nope.
Nick Symmonds 1.42.95 - came close in Brussels a season later but again, couldn't better this.
Mo Amman 1.43.20 - he did beat this performance which was a PR at the time. He did also dope so impossible to tell if he actually did really beat this performance (or even if this one was legit)
Abubaker Kaki 1.43.32 - even though he did run faster lifetime before London, he never ran faster after
Andrew Osagie - 1.43.77 - nope.
So your top 5 never bettered their performances from this race, despite continuing careers of relevancy - Rudisha even won another Olympic title and a WC's after this. Point is, and to yours, if that podium (heck even Jakob) never bettered their performances from that day then it really wouldn't be that crazy. Everyones career best performance happens somewhere - it's not surprising if it comes in an Olympic final where the motivation, drive and desperation can never be surpassed. Hard to see Josh Kerr ever running faster than 3.27.79. Hocker? As I said earlier, it feels like with him it's got to come in a big time championship race but how long are we expecting Jakob to drag out championship finals in 2.47.2 and could Hocker ever top the drive he had in that Paris final? Honestly the best bet to improve on his Paris time from that podium is Nuguse. He runs on the circuit a lot, runs the style of race on the circuit that would lead to a sub 3.27.80 - but still, these types of performances are still not easy to come by. As for Jakob? That's just a big unknown right now. Maybe he does want to focus on the 5000m and going after that record asap - that might mean the 1500/mile never quite reaches the heights of the last 2 seasons.
Tbf to the 2012 guys, they didn’t have pacing lights back then. I would like to think the 1500m podium in Paris can all run faster than what Habz ran who failed to make the semi this year. It has to be near perfect conditions and they have to commit to the pacer. I do agree with you that Kerr is most likely to never PR given he averages one 1500m Dl a year. We will see how these athletes treat this “off” year Since we haven’t had one since like 2020 or 2018 depending on how you look at it.
You do understand that Hocker is never going to get more pacing than he did in that 3:27, right? You do understand that Jakob ran 3:26 on almost half as much pacing, right?
Not almost half as much. Jakob got nearly 1100m there and ran under 1503m. Cole had his stop-start thing that cost him a couple tenths, but yes he got lots of drafting if slightly imperfect pacing. A Habz like situation where Cole gets 1000m+ and a rail run could result in 3:26-hi/3:27-lo I bet.
Someone who struggles to break 3:30 when getting normal pacing isn't going to suddenly shave 5 seconds off their time.
Please think for one second what a world record attempt would look like for Hocker when he needs to be drafted for a minimum 1400 meters to run 3:27. Would they do rotating rabbits like in the Kipchoge breaking 2?
Here's his 1500m/1Mile record by year against international competition. So overall, he has 1 win and 13 losses. Not a good look for "the greatest kick of all time" lol
2025: 0-5; he lost at all 3 grand slam races, the pre classic, and the world championships didn't even make the final
2024: 1-4; Won the Olympics but lost the pre classic and all 3 diamond league races he was in
2023: 0-4; Lost at world championships, 2 diamond league races, and the pre classic. Also went 0-2 domestically by losing the USA championships and the portland track festival
Here's his 1500m/1Mile record by year against international competition. So overall, he has 1 win and 13 losses. Not a good look for "the greatest kick of all time" lol
2025: 0-5; he lost at all 3 grand slam races, the pre classic, and the world championships didn't even make the final
2024: 1-4; Won the Olympics but lost the pre classic and all 3 diamond league races he was in
2023: 0-4; Lost at world championships, 2 diamond league races, and the pre classic. Also went 0-2 domestically by losing the USA championships and the portland track festival
Same can be said about Jakob, the downward trend is not a good look for someone aspiring to be the "undisputed GOAT":
2021-2025 Wc/Oly 1-4
2021: win the Oly, getting paced from 400-1400 by potato Tim
2022: lost to Wightman, close one
2023:lost to Kerr, race was over in the last 100m.
Football commentator Lee Corso once said "The only thing more boring than track is field." Lee Corso apparently had not watched Cole Hocker race.
Already Cole Hocker is the GOAT of exciting racing. Hocker is the master of WOW. Hocker set the world record for causing the greatest number of people to simultaneously say, "Holy *&!$^, what did I just see!" Hocker is the ambassador of AWE.
I love how everyone who never ran at the elite world class level just throws around the idea of breaking world records like it's a check box of something to do. Cole Hocker is a two time global champion in two different events, and he still gets shade thrown on him for "not racing enough and or winning more". WTF!!! It would seem logical for him to focus on a world record attempt at some event this upcoming season. If I'm not mistaken, he ran a 7:23 indoor 3k at Millrose last winter which was under the previous WR, and it was an off event for him. That being said, he has the potential to chase a WR in the 1500/Mile/2000/3000 outdoors in 2026. Does he get any of them? Who knows. I'm sure he will plan out a few races to try. If for some reason he doesn't, having an Olympic Gold medal and a World Championship Gold Medal aren't bad things to have on a resume. I'm sure Cole sleeps pretty good at night having "checked those two boxes".
You are absolutely right and I actually have typed a long defense in the other thread on why I think there is a strong case to be made that as it stands right now, Cole Hocker is the GOAT.
We agree...Except that fact that I don't think Cole Hocker is the G.O.A.T...Yet!
Staying true to what I posted a while ago, IMO, in order to be considered the G.O.A.T the following boxes need to be checked:
Olympic Gold Medal and World Championship Gold Medal and World Record Holder.
World Indoor Gold Medal and World Record Holder.
Unless I missed something, is there any other criteria needed? We can always add being a repeat Oly and WC Gold Medalist while still holding the WR, or when you officially retire holding all three titles, otherwise known as being undisputed.