Jakob has the greatest 5000m kick in history

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2 days ago 09/28/2025 7:02am EDT

re: KingColeCanPeak

KingColeCanPeak wrote:
Armstronglivs wrote:
So you aren't aware that we've just had world championships where he didn't make the final in the 1500 and got thrashed in the 5k. No kick in sight. Game over.
I agree with the guy noting Hocker’s fast finaih in a sub 13 race, but at the same time, Jakob came straight in off injury and no outdoor races. Your juvenile hatred and jealousy of Jakob has you going over the deep edge. Jakob was far from top fitness, and if he had been fit, if that tace was run the same way, Hocker would would have beaten him.
You probably run the vid of Jakob’s 1500 heat over and over while rubbing one out.

This thread suggests a runner who got blitzed at the last world championships - with no "finish" in sight - has the greatest kick in 5k history. You must have slept through these championships.

2 days ago 09/28/2025 7:03am EDT

re: longjackssss

longjackssss wrote:
a 443 2000m guy with 717,3000m, and 5k gold, has the credentials as fastest finisher.
hocker has entered the conversation, where his strength is at a new level.
is the summary of all the posts here. deleting the usual trolls.

Ingebrigtsen has some of the fastest times. That doesn't make him the fastest finisher.

2 days ago 09/28/2025 7:05am EDT

re: longjackssss

longjackssss wrote:
for a dose of sobrietary,
note that a 1600 in 400 plus a 53 is 453.
jacobs record is 10 seconds faster.
at 443.
nobody has this wheelhouse.

That isn't about his finish but his endurance. What about 1:46 as his "wheelhouse"?

2 days ago 09/28/2025 7:09am EDT

re: Curious_Cat

Curious_Cat wrote:
KingColeCanPeak wrote:
I agree with the guy noting Hocker’s fast finaih in a sub 13 race, but at the same time, Jakob came straight in off injury and no outdoor races. Your juvenile hatred and jealousy of Jakob has you going over the deep edge. Jakob was far from top fitness, and if he had been fit, if that tace was run the same way, Hocker would would have beaten him.
You probably run the vid of Jakob’s 1500 heat over and over while rubbing one out.
😂😂😂

I don't need to celebrate when he gets thrashed. It speaks for itself. But half of you get close to blowing your brains out. And then rescue yourselves with endless excuses and fantasy threads like this one.

2 days ago 09/28/2025 7:10am EDT

re: Armstronglivs

Armstronglivs wrote:
longjackssss wrote:
a 443 2000m guy with 717,3000m, and 5k gold, has the credentials as fastest finisher.
hocker has entered the conversation, where his strength is at a new level.
is the summary of all the posts here. deleting the usual trolls.
Ingebrigtsen has some of the fastest times. That doesn't make him the fastest finisher.

In the 5k he is the fastest finisher ever if the race is not super fast

2 days ago 09/28/2025 7:13am EDT

re: letshobbyjog

letshobbyjog wrote:
Armstronglivs wrote:
So where did Ingebrigtsen's amazing kick get him in the world's?
Serious question:
What brings you joy in watching track and field?
More specifically, who do you enjoy watching succeed? Do you have a favourite athlete? A favourite event? Favourite moments over the years?

A totally irrelevant question. I am only pointing out the obvious: how can the "greatest kicker in 5K history" be a mere also-ran in the last world champs, with no finish at all? As a finisher over the 5k he isn't up there with either Bekele or Farah.

2 days ago 09/28/2025 7:15am EDT

re: Has Not Done It Yet

Has Not Done It Yet wrote:
Curious_Cat wrote:
IIRC, he seems to be a fan of Keely Hodgkinson?
There’s no way that fake Kiwi is interested in any woman. His hate for Jakob is actually a love/hate fixation.

I am amused at the projections going on here. This thread is utterly a Jakob w**k.

2 days ago 09/28/2025 7:19am EDT

re: OACLover

2 days ago 09/28/2025 7:20am EDT

re: zzZzzZzzzZ

zzZzzZzzzZ wrote:
Armstronglivs wrote:
Ingebrigtsen has some of the fastest times. That doesn't make him the fastest finisher.
In the 5k he is the fastest finisher ever if the race is not super fast

Farah's record of championship titles finished with a kick says otherwise. Same with Bekele at his peak. El G's finish at Athens was better - and he wasn't a 5k specialist. Ingebrigtsen has preternatural endurance but speed is his limitation. He lacks significant acceleration so he doesn't have a great kick. He has to use a long drive from home.

2 days ago 09/28/2025 7:34am EDT

re: OACLover

I've said it before: Jakob's final 600m in Budapest was sub-1:20 (1:19.90), that is madness. I've so far found no other runner doing a sub-1:20 600m in a 5000m (and that includes some of the famous 52/51 second final lap races)

2 days ago 09/28/2025 7:37am EDT

re: Armstronglivs

Hocker's Tokyo race was great, with a crazy finish. But if I'm not mistaken Hocker's penultimate lap was 62ish, while Jakob's penultimate lap in Budapest 2023 was 58ish. Having a fast/crazy fast final 400m and final 100m is important, but so is the ability to go fast for the final 1000m or the final 3-4 laps. I really hope we can get a 5000m duel between Hocker and Jakob next year where both guys are injury free and in top shape.

Jakob has done a lot of great races, in different distances, in the last years. But what's about darn time he does is a 5000m in a Diamond League race. He hasn't done it in over 4 years, and he has only done it twice in his career (London 2019 and Florence 2021). I really want to see his potential in a fast paced 5000m.

2 days ago 09/28/2025 7:40am EDT

re: Armstronglivs

El Guerrouj was great, and I wish he ran more than just three 5000m races. He had a good finish, but I don't think he would've had an easy time against Jakob. Here are his three 5000m race with final lap time included:

Ostrava 2003: 12:50.25, 59.5ish (Hard to tell, the video is on Youtube, in really grainy footage)

Paris 2003: 12:52.83, 53.56

Athens 2004: 13:14.39, 52.6ish

2 days ago 09/28/2025 7:57am EDT

re: Armstronglivs

Armstronglivs wrote:
zzZzzZzzzZ wrote:
In the 5k he is the fastest finisher ever if the race is not super fast
Farah's record of championship titles finished with a kick says otherwise. Same with Bekele at his peak. El G's finish at Athens was better - and he wasn't a 5k specialist. Ingebrigtsen has preternatural endurance but speed is his limitation. He lacks significant acceleration so he doesn't have a great kick. He has to use a long drive from home.

For the last 1000, 2000, 3000 Jakob has the fastest finishes in championship races.

2 days ago 09/28/2025 11:01am EDT

re: OACLOVERS

You are not kicking for 2k or 3k. The kick is the final sprint. The time on the long drives depends heavily on when someone decides to make a move. Sometimes the last 400m is not that great because no one goes for it until they know they can make it to the line, so they dawdle until 200-250m. Other times you have someone like Mo Farah who starts driving with a k to go, or in Jakob's races, typically a Kejelcha or Gebrhiwet will start pushing with several laps to go to try to burn him out because they know he will win easily in the last lap because he's a 3:26 guy. But that doesn't work against Hocker.

2 days ago 09/28/2025 11:27am EDT

re: OACLOVERS

OACLOVERS wrote:
Why are you just looking at the last 500? The last kilometer is a much better data point when we are evaluating kick. It’s like the last 400 in a 1500. Would you agree?

I’m not sure that follows.

Is the last 600 of a steeplechase the sign of a good kicker? The last 8-10 km of a marathon?

It’s an arbitrary and context-dependent thing.

I like much of the discussion here for FUN but I don’t think it’s necessary that anyone has to “win” the thread.

2 days ago 09/28/2025 11:31am EDT

re: OACLover

OACLover wrote:
Posted in another thread:
Of the last 34 global 5000m championships (Starting at the Olympic Games 1972), the only winners to have run a sub 54 second last lap are (will include sub 13 races too even if the last lap wasn't sub 54):
1987- Said Aouita 52.92 Winning Time: 13:26.44
1999 - Salah Hissou 56.19 Winning time: 12:58.13
2003 - Eliud Kipchoge 53.4 Winning time: 12:52.79
2004 - El Guerrouj 52.6 Winning times 13:14.40
2005 - Benjamin Limo 53.6 Winning times: 13:32.55
2007 - Bernard Lagat 52.1-52.0 Winning times: 13:45.87
2008 - kenenisa Bekele 53.87 winning times: 12:57.82
2009 - Keneneisa Bekele 53.71 winning times: 13:17.09
2011 - Mo Farah 52.51 winning time: 13:23.36
2012 - Mo Farah 52.94 winning time: 13:41.66
2013 - Mo Farah 53.44 winning time: 13:26.98
2015 - Mofarah 52.67 winning time: 13:50
2016 - Mo Farh 52.9 winning time: 13:03.3
2017 - Muktar Edris - 52.5 winning time: 13:32.79
2019 - Muktar Edris - 55 winning time: 12:58.85
2021 - Josh Cheptegei - 55.05 winning time: 12:58.15
2022 - Jakob - 53.93 - winning time 13:09.24
2023 - Jakob - 52.45 winning time: 13:11.3
2024 - Jakob - 53.2 winning time: 13:13.66
2025 - Hocker - 52.62 winning time: 12:58.30
That is already 20 out of 34 races either in sub 54 or sub 13. Now of these 20, the only ones to close in a sub 2:23 final K are (will still include sub 13 races):
1999 (won't include it too far back and final K was like 2:28 or something)
2003: Eliud Kipchoge - 2:24.33 winning times: 12:52.79
2008: Kenenisa Bekele - 2:25.30 winning time: 12:57.82
2013 - Mo Farah - 2:22.28 winning time 13:26.98
2015 - Mo Farah - 2:19.22 winning time 13:50
2017 - Muktar Edris - 2:21.04 winning time: 13:32.79
2019- Muktar Edris - 2:24.3 winning time: 12:58.85
2021 -Josh Cheptegei - 2:25.35 winning time: 12:58.15
2023- Jakob - 2:21.07 winning time: 13:11.30
2024 - Jakob - 2:21.1 winning time: 13:13.66
2025 - Hocker - 2:25.31 winning time: 12:58.30
Now if we narrow it down to sub 5 final 2000m (still including sub 13 races):
2003: Eliud Kipchoge - 5:07 winning time 12:52.79
2008: Kenenisa Bekele - 4:56.97 winning time 12:57.82
2013 Mo Farah - 4:59.19 winning time 13:26.98
2017 Muktar Edris - 4:59.27 winning time: 13:32.79
2019 Muktar Edris - 5:05 winning time: 12:58.85
2021 Josh Cheptegei 5:03 winning time: 12:58.15
2023 Jakob 4:56.69 Winning time 13:11.30
2024 Jakob 4:55.4 Winning time 13:13.66
2025 Hocker: 5:05.48 Winning time 12:58.30
Lastly, let's rank all of them by the fastest last 3k:
2013 Mo Farah: 7:48.87
2003 Eliud Kipchoge: 7:45.93
2017 Muktar Edris: 7:44.51
2019 Muktar Edris: 7:43.51
2021 Josh Cheptegei 7:43.15
2025 Hocker: 7:41.75
2008 Kenenisa Bekele - 7:35.53
2024 Jakob: 7:35.4
2023 Jakob: 7:34.45
So now, take a look at all of Jakobs splits, he has the fastest final 400m out of any runner in championship history other than Lagat (But his finishing time was 13:45 and we can all agree that is obscenely slow). He also has the fastest last kilometer out of any runner other than Farah (13:50) and Edris (13:32.79). He also has the fastest last 2k out of any other runner in history x2. And lastly, he has the fastest final 3k in history x2.
Jakob may possibly have the greatest 5000m kick of all time. To be able to run a 52 after a 2:21 Km, a 4:55 2k, and a 7:35 final 3k demonstrates GOAT kicking ability. Nobody else has done that before. It's equivalent to El Guerrouj running 1:46 for the final 800 in Athens. The ONLY runner in history who could have beat him in Budapest and Paris was Bekele as he arguably has the most impressive one off performance in championship 5000m history (2008). BUT, I think in a traditional final 2k burnup, Jakob will win every time.

I have on the other thread, where you posted this, made probable that Jakob could have run AT LEAST 2:21 last 1000m in the Tokyo 5000m final if HE HAD BEEN IN TOP SHAPE.

How do I know this? Because he ran a last 1000m in 2:22.34 in his 3000m WR race last year after a 2000m in 4:55.21. This 2000m time equals around 10:24 in the 4000m which is significantly faster than the 12:32 they ran in the first 4000m in Tokyo. So when the Tokyo 4000m was significantly less taxing than the first 2000m in his 3000m WR race he could have run a significant faster last 1000m in Tokyo.

So Jakob could AT LEAST have run 12:53.16 in Tokyo (his first 4000m was 10:32.16).

I think Jakob could have run 29 from 4000m to 4200, 57 and 55 for a final 1000m in 2:21.

How could Hocker have responded to such a fast 1000m?

I think he could have run 29, 58 and 56 for a final 1000m in 2:23 (his last 1000m in Tokyo was 2:25.31). This gives a final time in 12:56.30 (his first 4000m was 10:32.99).

Why don´t I think Hocker can run a faster last 1000m under these conditions?

Because in his Millrose 3000m he ran 4:58.27 for the first 2000m and 2:24.87 for the last 1000m. 4:58.27 for 2000m is close to equal to the 12:32 they ran for the first 4000m in Tokyo so there is no reason to believe that Hocker should be able to run much faster in the final 1000m in Tokyo. I have, however, generously deducted almost 2 sec from the time for his last 1000m in the Millrose 3000m.

And realize: When Hocker has to run a fast last 1000m his kick has gone!

In the Millrose 3000m Hocker ran 29.77, 59.35 and 55.75 for his last 1000m in 2:24.87.

2 days ago 09/28/2025 12:00pm EDT

re: objectiveobserver

objectiveobserver wrote:
OACLover wrote:
Posted in another thread:
Of the last 34 global 5000m championships (Starting at the Olympic Games 1972), the only winners to have run a sub 54 second last lap are (will include sub 13 races too even if the last lap wasn't sub 54):
1987- Said Aouita 52.92 Winning Time: 13:26.44
1999 - Salah Hissou 56.19 Winning time: 12:58.13
2003 - Eliud Kipchoge 53.4 Winning time: 12:52.79
2004 - El Guerrouj 52.6 Winning times 13:14.40
2005 - Benjamin Limo 53.6 Winning times: 13:32.55
2007 - Bernard Lagat 52.1-52.0 Winning times: 13:45.87
2008 - kenenisa Bekele 53.87 winning times: 12:57.82
2009 - Keneneisa Bekele 53.71 winning times: 13:17.09
2011 - Mo Farah 52.51 winning time: 13:23.36
2012 - Mo Farah 52.94 winning time: 13:41.66
2013 - Mo Farah 53.44 winning time: 13:26.98
2015 - Mofarah 52.67 winning time: 13:50
2016 - Mo Farh 52.9 winning time: 13:03.3
2017 - Muktar Edris - 52.5 winning time: 13:32.79
2019 - Muktar Edris - 55 winning time: 12:58.85
2021 - Josh Cheptegei - 55.05 winning time: 12:58.15
2022 - Jakob - 53.93 - winning time 13:09.24
2023 - Jakob - 52.45 winning time: 13:11.3
2024 - Jakob - 53.2 winning time: 13:13.66
2025 - Hocker - 52.62 winning time: 12:58.30
That is already 20 out of 34 races either in sub 54 or sub 13. Now of these 20, the only ones to close in a sub 2:23 final K are (will still include sub 13 races):
1999 (won't include it too far back and final K was like 2:28 or something)
2003: Eliud Kipchoge - 2:24.33 winning times: 12:52.79
2008: Kenenisa Bekele - 2:25.30 winning time: 12:57.82
2013 - Mo Farah - 2:22.28 winning time 13:26.98
2015 - Mo Farah - 2:19.22 winning time 13:50
2017 - Muktar Edris - 2:21.04 winning time: 13:32.79
2019- Muktar Edris - 2:24.3 winning time: 12:58.85
2021 -Josh Cheptegei - 2:25.35 winning time: 12:58.15
2023- Jakob - 2:21.07 winning time: 13:11.30
2024 - Jakob - 2:21.1 winning time: 13:13.66
2025 - Hocker - 2:25.31 winning time: 12:58.30
Now if we narrow it down to sub 5 final 2000m (still including sub 13 races):
2003: Eliud Kipchoge - 5:07 winning time 12:52.79
2008: Kenenisa Bekele - 4:56.97 winning time 12:57.82
2013 Mo Farah - 4:59.19 winning time 13:26.98
2017 Muktar Edris - 4:59.27 winning time: 13:32.79
2019 Muktar Edris - 5:05 winning time: 12:58.85
2021 Josh Cheptegei 5:03 winning time: 12:58.15
2023 Jakob 4:56.69 Winning time 13:11.30
2024 Jakob 4:55.4 Winning time 13:13.66
2025 Hocker: 5:05.48 Winning time 12:58.30
Lastly, let's rank all of them by the fastest last 3k:
2013 Mo Farah: 7:48.87
2003 Eliud Kipchoge: 7:45.93
2017 Muktar Edris: 7:44.51
2019 Muktar Edris: 7:43.51
2021 Josh Cheptegei 7:43.15
2025 Hocker: 7:41.75
2008 Kenenisa Bekele - 7:35.53
2024 Jakob: 7:35.4
2023 Jakob: 7:34.45
So now, take a look at all of Jakobs splits, he has the fastest final 400m out of any runner in championship history other than Lagat (But his finishing time was 13:45 and we can all agree that is obscenely slow). He also has the fastest last kilometer out of any runner other than Farah (13:50) and Edris (13:32.79). He also has the fastest last 2k out of any other runner in history x2. And lastly, he has the fastest final 3k in history x2.
Jakob may possibly have the greatest 5000m kick of all time. To be able to run a 52 after a 2:21 Km, a 4:55 2k, and a 7:35 final 3k demonstrates GOAT kicking ability. Nobody else has done that before. It's equivalent to El Guerrouj running 1:46 for the final 800 in Athens. The ONLY runner in history who could have beat him in Budapest and Paris was Bekele as he arguably has the most impressive one off performance in championship 5000m history (2008). BUT, I think in a traditional final 2k burnup, Jakob will win every time.
I have on the other thread, where you posted this, made probable that Jakob could have run AT LEAST 2:21 last 1000m in the Tokyo 5000m final if HE HAD BEEN IN TOP SHAPE.
How do I know this? Because he ran a last 1000m in 2:22.34 in his 3000m WR race last year after a 2000m in 4:55.21. This 2000m time equals around 10:24 in the 4000m which is significantly faster than the 12:32 they ran in the first 4000m in Tokyo. So when the Tokyo 4000m was significantly less taxing than the first 2000m in his 3000m WR race he could have run a significant faster last 1000m in Tokyo.
So Jakob could AT LEAST have run 12:53.16 in Tokyo (his first 4000m was 10:32.16).
I think Jakob could have run 29 from 4000m to 4200, 57 and 55 for a final 1000m in 2:21.
How could Hocker have responded to such a fast 1000m?
I think he could have run 29, 58 and 56 for a final 1000m in 2:23 (his last 1000m in Tokyo was 2:25.31). This gives a final time in 12:56.30 (his first 4000m was 10:32.99).
Why don´t I think Hocker can run a faster last 1000m under these conditions?
Because in his Millrose 3000m he ran 4:58.27 for the first 2000m and 2:24.87 for the last 1000m. 4:58.27 for 2000m is close to equal to the 12:32 they ran for the first 4000m in Tokyo so there is no reason to believe that Hocker should be able to run much faster in the final 1000m in Tokyo. I have, however, generously deducted almost 2 sec from the time for his last 1000m in the Millrose 3000m.
And realize: When Hocker has to run a fast last 1000m his kick has gone!
In the Millrose 3000m Hocker ran 29.77, 59.35 and 55.75 for his last 1000m in 2:24.87.

Correction: Hocker´s final time in Tokyo should be 12:55.99 (12:32.99 for the first 4000m and 2:23 for the last 1000m).

2 days ago 09/28/2025 12:06pm EDT

re: objectiveobserver

objectiveobserver wrote:
Correction: Hocker´s final time in Tokyo should be 12:55.99 (12:32.99 for the first 4000m and 2:23 for the last 1000m).

It’s good that you have these thoughts on the matter. It obviates the need for an actual race.
Hmmm … I wonder if Hocker could have been in better shape at worlds than at Millrose?

No need to ask now - you’ve done the “objective “ calculations 😂

1 day ago 09/29/2025 12:19pm EDT

re: Armstronglivs

Armstronglivs wrote:
how can the "greatest kicker in 5K history" be a mere also-ran in the last world champs, with no finish at all?

Because he had been injured for months, Crusty. You would know this if you followed the sport.

1 day ago 09/29/2025 1:08pm EDT

re: Has Not Done It Yet

Has Not Done It Yet wrote:
OACLOVERS wrote:
But then why are you disregarding Jakob’s final 2k in the race? There is a far bigger difference in closing in 4:55 rather than 5:05. It’s not as close as you are making it seem. Finishing times are not the whole story, sorry, it’s just not.
That’s what they’ve been trying to tell you.
No matter how you slice it, Cole ran 52 to win a 12:58 race. Jakob has never done that. You’re the one claiming there isn’t much difference between 13:12 and 12:58. There absolutely is. And Hocker proves it.

No there isn’t. Jakob’s average pace over the last 5 laps and even the last 7 and a half laps were are a far greater difference of pace than Hocker’s race. He has a better kick.

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