So we know Ruth is dirty.. but was it EPO or something stronger?

Hassan appeared on the leaked Fancy Bears "likely doping" list.

Genuinely could not care less. She isn't doping with Rowberry

We can never be sure. I think it is highly likely that at least one of Assefa, Hassan, and Kosgei are clean. Its also highly likely that at least one of those three are dirty. I have no idea which ones are clean or dirty (could be all but think thats less likely than a mix). I could guess who is dirty, but it would just be speculations based on hunches not hard evidence. So Hassan's 2:13 is a great guess as an average of what we might expect to be the clean record, but we can never be certain who is clean, its just a fact of our sport. All three of those times 2:11 - 2:14 are times we'd expect given the men are now running in the 2:01-2:02 range.

To expect anything slower than a 2:14:04 clean womens record would basically be accusing all of Kipchoge, Bekele, Kiptum, Lema, and Sawe of doping too on the mens side, because no way the women are slower than 2:14 low while the men are going 2:01 - 2:02 low.

Since this is the thread for wild speculation (not sure if I actually even believe this):

The American chemists/doctors think the new drug isn’t safe for women. The crazy US performances in the past two years have all been from men. Hocker, Fisher, Nico Young, Kenneth Rooks. As we have seen from Rebecca Cheptegei and others, Kenya is incredibly abusive of talented women. Even though the Americans might think the drug is unsafe for women, Frederico Rosa and others continue to dose Kenyan women with it.

I’d go even farther than a reduced ban, in this case I’d support WADA paying her a large monetary whistleblower award if she came clean about what she was taking and the network that supplied it.

So the AR is the real WR?

Lugworm hemoglobin has been discussed as a possible doping agent, but it's detectable and mainly would be used in competition. The claims of it's oxygen carrying ability are molar based and don't account for large molecular weight. It could be used in the Enhanced Games, but a useful amount in regular competition would very likely be detected in a world record or gold-medal achievement.

Whatever Ruth was using probably could be filtered directly by the kidneys and not require a liver process.

I agree. While VO2 max is not everything, it influences threshold pace and respiratory exchange ratio at a given submaximal pace. It's a math problem with O2 partial pressures and transfer of O2.

I don't understand how this gets so many upvotes. It's really just describing current situation and baselessly claims "that's what you'd expect".

Weirdly biased take?

Isn't track much more spread out now than it used to be? Hull - Australia, Hunter-Bell - GB, Tsegay - ETH, Chebet/Kipyegon - KEN, same for the men - Ingebrigtsen, Kerr, new Kenyan guy, Almgren, Young .... If it were new and systematic, if anything you'd expect concentration with certain camps/coaches, no?

I don't disagree that recent performance explosions raise eyebrows and a new drug could be out there, but the "expected" part reads like conspiracy stuff.

This assumes she was only using an undetectable new super drug as opposed to it plus detectable PEDs requiring the masking agent. Dopers generally stack PEDs.

LMAO you think EPO is for the friggin peloton? Just admit you know nothing about cycling.

EPO gets them up the friggin hills idiot. Redline max VO2 the whole way. Watch the TdF and see for yourself how it works.

Just checked back in to see how this was cooking... I see you people have a LONG way to go. None of you understand ex phys at all.

Describing OAC athletes right here (Klecker et al)

Look at the Fick equation for VO2 (max or submaximal) and you'll see the role EPO plays in delivery but also how hemoglobin releasing the O2 also plays a role (and mitochondria density and function when you look at respiration v O2 pressure). Then look at the oxyhemoglobin saturation curve and how it shifts with acidity and CO2 (Bohr effect). VO2 max will always be above LT2 because it takes some acidity to offload more O2 to the muscle fibers. When you raise VO2 through O2 delivery you also raise LT2.

But if you're not arguing in good faith (sophistry) then I'm mainly speaking to people reading this so that they won't be misled into thinking EPO doesn't matter in the marathon.

A corticosteroid?

Some have been reduced eg Gay but we never seem to see anything off the back of it

She will already be getting a reduced ban, diuretics & missed test should be a 4 years ban. Both are done to avoid the positive test for something giving a 4 year ban

As usual she will likely keep the record and all money earned at least she is not near the end of her career like most so the money she fraudulently gained will be limited

Ban Kenya state funded or on an individual basis doping is endemic and needs stopping then move on to other EA countries with poor testing facilties

Garbage the marathon didn't get slaughtered because the best runners stayed on the track. Once Kipchoge Geb and Bekele moved to marathon they ran 2:03 with shoes = 2:01. The last 2 were passed their best when they moved up

Marathon pace is faster than up many hills in Tour but crucially it helps for any aerobic event speed is irrelevant as they are on bike so same effort you go faster DA

I would type more but in summary you are clueless

There are some real brainiacs in this thread saying epo not for the marathon, but allows redlining up mountains and only for shorter distances.

Do you actually think 2" to 2"05 is done at aerobic paces. Ffs, did anyone ever watch Kiptum race lol.