B.A.A Updates policy for net downhill qualifying races

hothottake wrote:

Now that they are accounting for aggressive net downhill races and penalizing/disqualifying them, B.A.A. should keep their foot on the gas and account for the following:

- temperature/weather grading for marathon submissions. Was it warm the day raced and now your submission time is on the cusp? That should be taken in to consideration if it was 70F and the other person that could edge you out ran when it was 40F. Rain and strong headwinds? Clearly that is good for a 3 minute adjustment

- Weight grade applicants who use supershoes. Studies have shown that lighter runners benefit from an increase economy when wearing supershoes vs heavier runners.

- Extend the race to 7pm. Elites and qualifiers go off in waves as usual. Charity runners all start 2pm. You're doing them a favor. Boston shouldn't be the first marathon you've run in your life and being on your feet for more than 5 hours sounds like torture. You've raised money for a wonderful cause, no one doubts you're a good person. But you do need to be a little faster.

- If sponsors want to be given guaranteed bibs for influencers, make them pay to slightly widen the course just a little bit each year. This will allow for more time qualified runners on the road, this way nobody can complain that an influencer is taking the place of someone who has earned it.

- take the excess soil from the road construction each year and add it to the top of Heartbreak Hill. Eventually Boston will no longer be considered a net-downhill course, and all these Revel defenders will have nothing to argue against

jewbacca wrote:

your PR is your major PR wrote:

I know a dude that did exactly that. Went to St George and ran almost 10 mins faster than his flat PR. Not only that, but if you look at his Strava PRs from GPS data, he broke every one of his PRs from 5k all the way up to half marathon in the 2nd half of St George.

To this day, he still has his St George time as his "26.2 PR" in his Strava bio. The strange thing is, for some reason, he doesn't count the 13.1 2nd half of his St George race as his half PR.

The main reason I bring this up is because he had one of the lowest bib numbers in all of Boston, wave 1 corral A, then ran like 3:20 something. He usually runs in the high 2:50s in majors. Ran low 2:30 low at St George.

I have a *really* hard time believing anybody who can run low-2:30 at St George is only capable of high-2:50s at any major.

General rule of thumb for 2:2x guys is 3-5 minutes faster than Chicago. >5000ft at the start and an uphill 2nd 10k makes it a little bit harder than people think. No 2:50 guy is running 20 minutes faster.

realracersrecognize wrote:

hothottake wrote:

Now that they are accounting for aggressive net downhill races and penalizing/disqualifying them, B.A.A. should keep their foot on the gas and account for the following:

- temperature/weather grading for marathon submissions. Was it warm the day raced and now your submission time is on the cusp? That should be taken in to consideration if it was 70F and the other person that could edge you out ran when it was 40F. Rain and strong headwinds? Clearly that is good for a 3 minute adjustment

- Weight grade applicants who use supershoes. Studies have shown that lighter runners benefit from an increase economy when wearing supershoes vs heavier runners.

- Extend the race to 7pm. Elites and qualifiers go off in waves as usual. Charity runners all start 2pm. You're doing them a favor. Boston shouldn't be the first marathon you've run in your life and being on your feet for more than 5 hours sounds like torture. You've raised money for a wonderful cause, no one doubts you're a good person. But you do need to be a little faster.

- If sponsors want to be given guaranteed bibs for influencers, make them pay to slightly widen the course just a little bit each year. This will allow for more time qualified runners on the road, this way nobody can complain that an influencer is taking the place of someone who has earned it.

- take the excess soil from the road construction each year and add it to the top of Heartbreak Hill. Eventually Boston will no longer be considered a net-downhill course, and all these Revel defenders will have nothing to argue against

Every single one of your suggested rule changes are terrible.

arunnerinwa wrote:

This is a very good change. I think it's a fair and generous approach. I live in Seattle, and the marathon situation here is rough. There's the Seattle Marathon, whose course changes every year but always features 1000+ feet of elevation gain (and sometimes a lot more) and often lots of rain. There are local races with few participants. And there are the downhill races. Otherwise you have to drive 3+ hours or get on a plane. I got on a plane and ran Houston, as I didn't want an asterisk next to my time. But it was a giant hassle. It's nice to give people the option to run the downhill courses but adjust the times meaningfully. But it was ridiculous to treat downhill times the same as times on flat courses. And an awful lot of people are in complete denial about how much the downhill grade helps their time.

PNW FTW wrote:

arunnerinwa wrote:

This is a very good change. I think it's a fair and generous approach. I live in Seattle, and the marathon situation here is rough. There's the Seattle Marathon, whose course changes every year but always features 1000+ feet of elevation gain (and sometimes a lot more) and often lots of rain. There are local races with few participants. And there are the downhill races. Otherwise you have to drive 3+ hours or get on a plane. I got on a plane and ran Houston, as I didn't want an asterisk next to my time. But it was a giant hassle. It's nice to give people the option to run the downhill courses but adjust the times meaningfully. But it was ridiculous to treat downhill times the same as times on flat courses. And an awful lot of people are in complete denial about how much the downhill grade helps their time.

I've never understood why the Seattle Marathon must be held on the final Sunday in November, and why it goes off at 7:00 a.m., given how late in the year it is. I ran it in 2023, and guess what? We took off in the dark (good thing there were streetlights), and I saw someone fall and land completely on his back because of the frost on the ground about an hour into the race. The poor guy didn't even have a chance to get his hands down to break his fall. Just completely ate sh*t on the pavement with at least half the race left. We couldn't hold this marathon just a bit earlier in the year? Or perhaps start it a few hours later in the day, so the ice could melt off? (I understand traffic control gets to be problematic in big cities, but...c'mon.)