OK, start your next conversation with the girl like this- Hey, have you seen the documentary called The Matrix? Let the fun begin!
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Facts aren't political wrote:
rekrunner wrote:
You actually said "all concluded it was the *most likely* origin of the virus outbreak".
What you say about "liberal women" can also be applied to conservative women, and conservative men, and just about any group you care to name. What is your motivation to single out "liberal women".
Your name says it all -- it is hard to filter out just the facts, when all of the issues are made political.
"You didn't say it was likely! You said it was MOST likely!"
Boy, you really got me there.
Do you know what these words "most likely" mean?
You called your friend ignorant for not knowing "facts" in 2025, but you have provided no new facts, nor did the agencies. These "low confidence" conclusions from agencies are not facts themselves, but opinions with low confidence precisely because facts are lacking.
And what about the rest? There is no real consensus that one theory is "most likely". And the "lab leak" theory isn't just one theory, but a collection of many, including a virus of animal origin. It seems rather that "most likely" is an opinion that depends on individual gut-feeling, if not political direction, rather than facts, as you imply.
And what about your personal attack on "liberal women"? In my experience, what you describe is not characteristic of, or limited to, liberal women.
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She's right. The OP can't tell the difference between speculative possibilities and confirmed fact.
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President Biden is more concerned about government control than the safety of our workforce or the protection of our individual rights.
On September 9, 2021, President Biden issued an Executive Order requiring all federal employees and contractors be fully vaccinated against COVID-19 by November 22, 2021 and December 8, 2021, respectively. The alternative? Termination.
Not only does this mandate go against our inalienable rights protected in the Constitution, but it ignores the fact that natural immunity also provides protection against infection from the virus. In fact, other countries have adopted policies upholding this as a valid, science-based exemption from vaccine requirements.011 -
If you get a chance, Read Rand Pauls book DECEPTION. It presents all the facts about the lab and the political reactions.. He has always been super smart and honest, calling out both parties when they are liars.
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Facts aren\'t political wrote:
I don't even remember how it came up, but she said something about it and then called me a conspiracy theorist for believing Covid 19 came from the Wuhan Lab. I said it wasn't something "I believed" per se, but that the FBI, CIA, and US Department of Energy all did their own independent investigations into this and all concluded it was the most likely origin of the virus outbreak, though results were less than definitive. She got mad and more or less dismissed it as meaningless and said something indicating she didn't care what any of those reports said.
This whole thing really caught me off guard. I didn't realize people didn't know this? How are people this ignorant in 2025 when it takes less than a minute to look into stuff like this?
Also, maybe a different thread entirely, but has anyone else noticed that liberal women seem to not base any of their thinking on actual facts at all? I know this will probably anger some people, but I've historically been a left leaning moderate, and this is something I've been noticing more and more in recent years, that liberal women in particular seem to be both almost unbelievably ignorant of facts as well as totally impervious to them when deciding what to think. It's been really odd.
Bozo detector was glowing red when reading this one. You seem super-flummoxed. Maybe eat more before your long runs. So odd! Everything is so odd!
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Hamp1 wrote:
scientist here wrote:
Scientists using actual evidence have it the other way around. Spy agencies without evidence and self-admitted "low confidence" are the ones thinking lab leak. The OP's "girlfriend" probably has more science education than him.
Don't you think intelligence agencies like the FBI and CIA have information about China and Wuhan and other things that people in the public domain do not have? Besides that, no scientific paper has said anything is conclusive either way.
The lack of critical thinking skills of people on this board is insane.
There is A LOT of evidence pointing to zoonotic spillover that is just incompatible with a lab leak. There is NO evidence to a lab leak that anyone has provided.
Wired article wrote:
First: the scene of the crime. Where exactly in this city of 11 million people did the virus first jump from animals to humans? To find out, the team—led by University of Arizona biologist Michael Worobey—scoured a report published by the World Health Organization in the summer of 2021, which was based on a joint investigation the public health body conducted with Chinese scientists. By cross-referencing the different maps and tables within the report, the researchers obtained coordinates for 155 of the earliest Covid cases in Wuhan, people who were hospitalized from the disease in December 2019.
Most of those cases were clustered around central Wuhan, particularly on the west bank of the Yangtze river—the same area as the Huanan market. “There was this extraordinary pattern where the highest density of cases was both extremely near to and very centered on the market,” says Worobey, lead author on the paper, which was published in Science. Statistical analysis confirmed that it was “extremely unlikely” that the pattern of cases seen in the early days of the pandemic would have been so clustered on the market if Covid had originated anywhere else: A random selection of similar people from around Wuhan were very unlikely to have lived so close to the market.Use your critical thinking about the pattern of where they found the early cases and how it was centered on the wet market.
Wired article wrote:
Even early patients who didn’t work or shop at the market were more likely to live close to it. “This is an indication that the virus started spreading in people who worked at the market, but then started to spread into the local community, as vendors went to local shops, infected people who worked in those shops, and then local community members not linked to the market started getting infected,” says Worobey.Community spread near the wet market happened early on, not around the virology lab despite it not being a popular place to visit:
Wired article wrote:
Historical location-based “check-ins” on Weibo also show that the Huanan market was a relatively unlikely destination for most people in the city—in other words, it was unlikely to be the location of a superspreader event unless the virus originated from there.Scientist found one of the spots in the wet market that likely jumping off site:
Wired article wrote:
To trace the pandemic in the other direction, toward its source, the researchers turned to swab samples collected by Chinese scientists from around the Huanan market just before it was shut down by the authorities in January 2020. Those swabs returned a cluster of positives in the south-western corner of the market—on a glove found on one of the stalls, from a grate under one of the cages. Five of the positive samples came from a single stall—a stall that was known to be selling live animals in late 2019, and the same stall where Holmes had taken his photograph of the raccoon dogs five years earlier.Harambe mentioned the two strains circulating in Wuhan early on. The evidence when studying the two strains pointed to multiple introductions. A lab leak doesn't make sense at all for that. Use your critical thinking to explain how a lab leaks two different strains out more than once while jumping to a location more than 10km from the lab?
Wired article wrote:
This layering of indirect evidence has helped to settle the question of where Covid jumped into humans, but the question of timing has also been a subject of fierce debate. A companion paper explores this using Covid’s molecular clock—what Joel Wertheim, a virologist at the University of California, San Diego and coauthor on the paper, calls “that steady drumbeat of mutations accumulating in SARS-CoV-2,” or how the virus shifts over time.
It had been assumed that a virus jumping from animals into humans was a piece of cosmic bad luck—a one-off amplified by bad decisionmaking in the days and months that followed. But the genetic data tells a different story. There were actually two strains of Covid circulating in Wuhan in late 2019: Lineage A and Lineage B, which are just two letters apart in their genetic code, according to Jonathan Pekar, a researcher at UC San Diego and another of the study’s coauthors.
As Pekar delved deeper into what scientists call the “phylogeny” of SARS-CoV-2—its family tree—it became clear that their understanding of how the disease had crossed over might be wrong. “We eventually figured out that it was better explained by multiple introductions than a single one,” he says. The researchers now think Lineage A—which is more genetically similar to bat coronaviruses, and so appears earlier in the virus’s family tree—was actually introduced into humans after Lineage B. Lineage B ended up becoming the dominant global variant: both persisted for a while, but Delta, Omicron, and the rest of the variants that swept the globe are descended from B, not A.Map, note the 5km scale bar:
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scientist here wrote:
Hamp1 wrote:
Don't you think intelligence agencies like the FBI and CIA have information about China and Wuhan and other things that people in the public domain do not have? Besides that, no scientific paper has said anything is conclusive either way.
The lack of critical thinking skills of people on this board is insane.
There is A LOT of evidence pointing to zoonotic spillover that is just incompatible with a lab leak. There is NO evidence to a lab leak that anyone has provided.
Wired article wrote:
First: the scene of the crime. Where exactly in this city of 11 million people did the virus first jump from animals to humans? To find out, the team—led by University of Arizona biologist Michael Worobey—scoured a report published by the World Health Organization in the summer of 2021, which was based on a joint investigation the public health body conducted with Chinese scientists. By cross-referencing the different maps and tables within the report, the researchers obtained coordinates for 155 of the earliest Covid cases in Wuhan, people who were hospitalized from the disease in December 2019.Most of those cases were clustered around central Wuhan, particularly on the west bank of the Yangtze river—the same area as the Huanan market. “There was this extraordinary pattern where the highest density of cases was both extremely near to and very centered on the market,” says Worobey, lead author on the paper, which was published in Science. Statistical analysis confirmed that it was “extremely unlikely” that the pattern of cases seen in the early days of the pandemic would have been so clustered on the market if Covid had originated anywhere else: A random selection of similar people from around Wuhan were very unlikely to have lived so close to the market.
Use your critical thinking about the pattern of where they found the early cases and how it was centered on the wet market.
Wired article wrote:
Even early patients who didn’t work or shop at the market were more likely to live close to it. “This is an indication that the virus started spreading in people who worked at the market, but then started to spread into the local community, as vendors went to local shops, infected people who worked in those shops, and then local community members not linked to the market started getting infected,” says Worobey.Community spread near the wet market happened early on, not around the virology lab despite it not being a popular place to visit:
Wired article wrote:
Historical location-based “check-ins” on Weibo also show that the Huanan market was a relatively unlikely destination for most people in the city—in other words, it was unlikely to be the location of a superspreader event unless the virus originated from there.Scientist found one of the spots in the wet market that likely jumping off site:
Wired article wrote:
To trace the pandemic in the other direction, toward its source, the researchers turned to swab samples collected by Chinese scientists from around the Huanan market just before it was shut down by the authorities in January 2020. Those swabs returned a cluster of positives in the south-western corner of the market—on a glove found on one of the stalls, from a grate under one of the cages. Five of the positive samples came from a single stall—a stall that was known to be selling live animals in late 2019, and the same stall where Holmes had taken his photograph of the raccoon dogs five years earlier.Harambe mentioned the two strains circulating in Wuhan early on. The evidence when studying the two strains pointed to multiple introductions. A lab leak doesn't make sense at all for that. Use your critical thinking to explain how a lab leaks two different strains out more than once while jumping to a location more than 10km from the lab?
Wired article wrote:
This layering of indirect evidence has helped to settle the question of where Covid jumped into humans, but the question of timing has also been a subject of fierce debate. A companion paper explores this using Covid’s molecular clock—what Joel Wertheim, a virologist at the University of California, San Diego and coauthor on the paper, calls “that steady drumbeat of mutations accumulating in SARS-CoV-2,” or how the virus shifts over time.It had been assumed that a virus jumping from animals into humans was a piece of cosmic bad luck—a one-off amplified by bad decisionmaking in the days and months that followed. But the genetic data tells a different story. There were actually two strains of Covid circulating in Wuhan in late 2019: Lineage A and Lineage B, which are just two letters apart in their genetic code, according to Jonathan Pekar, a researcher at UC San Diego and another of the study’s coauthors.
As Pekar delved deeper into what scientists call the “phylogeny” of SARS-CoV-2—its family tree—it became clear that their understanding of how the disease had crossed over might be wrong. “We eventually figured out that it was better explained by multiple introductions than a single one,” he says. The researchers now think Lineage A—which is more genetically similar to bat coronaviruses, and so appears earlier in the virus’s family tree—was actually introduced into humans after Lineage B. Lineage B ended up becoming the dominant global variant: both persisted for a while, but Delta, Omicron, and the rest of the variants that swept the globe are descended from B, not A.
Map, note the 5km scale bar:
Excellent post but have you considered that the OP was talking to a liberal woman and she thus must have been shrill, over reactive, dogmatic, and wrong?
OP read this ^ quoted post we can help you craft your apology text.
This post was edited 48 seconds after it was posted.21 -
Wow, you truly are ignorant if you believe in the wet market after thousands of verified emails and documents and eye witnesses have admitted otherwise. the problem with this site is it's overpopulated with unquestioning recent college grads who have swallowed the mainstream media hook.
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Rich Vasquez wrote:
Wow, you truly are ignorant if you believe in the wet market after thousands of verified emails and documents and eye witnesses have admitted otherwise. the problem with this site is it's overpopulated with unquestioning recent college grads who have swallowed the mainstream media hook.
care to share these thousands of emails and eye witness accounts?
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sonofgohan wrote:
Some people are skeptical or sensitive about topics like COVID origins due to political or media influences. The lab-leak theory is considered plausible by many experts now, but reactions can vary—it's best to approach such topics with care and open dialogue.
What's with these bots (with two total posts. . . Rich Vasquez a probable one too)?
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rekrunner wrote:
Facts aren't political wrote:
"You didn't say it was likely! You said it was MOST likely!"
Boy, you really got me there.
Do you know what these words "most likely" mean?
You called your friend ignorant for not knowing "facts" in 2025, but you have provided no new facts, nor did the agencies. These "low confidence" conclusions from agencies are not facts themselves, but opinions with low confidence precisely because facts are lacking.
And what about the rest? There is no real consensus that one theory is "most likely". And the "lab leak" theory isn't just one theory, but a collection of many, including a virus of animal origin. It seems rather that "most likely" is an opinion that depends on individual gut-feeling, if not political direction, rather than facts, as you imply.
And what about your personal attack on "liberal women"? In my experience, what you describe is not characteristic of, or limited to, liberal women.
The fact is not that covid originated from the Wuhan lab. The fact is that the FBI, CIA, and DOE all said it's the most likely origin. I said this in my op and never said the lab leak origin is fact. Can you even read?
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Low intellect people have a poor understanding of randomness.
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Rich Vasquez wrote:
Wow, you truly are ignorant if you believe in the wet market after thousands of verified emails and documents and eye witnesses have admitted otherwise. the problem with this site is it's overpopulated with unquestioning recent college grads who have swallowed the mainstream media hook.
Critical thinking escapes those people.
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finallyransub17 wrote:
Ok buddyPeople would rather be lied to than have to ADMIT that they have been lied to.
People will continue to believe that Covid came from a market (even though the wet market theory was a truly pathetic excuse for a cover up…you could at least try to be a little more creative when you attempt to lie to billions of people).
There are hundreds of millions of people around the world who stopped and thought about it for about 2-3 seconds and realized “wait, the market thing doesn’t make any sense in the context of where the virus originated.”
The clip of John Stewart on Colbert, talking about people’s supposed surprise that chocolate could come out of the Hershey chocolate factory, was one of the best illustrations.
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Jazzmusic5 wrote:
finallyransub17 wrote:
Ok buddyPeople would rather be lied to than have to ADMIT that they have been lied to.
People will continue to believe that Covid came from a market (even though the wet market theory was a truly pathetic excuse for a cover up…you could at least try to be a little more creative when you attempt to lie to billions of people).
There are hundreds of millions of people around the world who stopped and thought about it for about 2-3 seconds and realized “wait, the market thing doesn’t make any sense in the context of where the virus originated.”
The clip of John Stewart on Colbert, talking about people’s supposed surprise that chocolate could come out of the Hershey chocolate factory, was one of the best illustrations.
I mean the market makes a lot of sense given the evidence. Nobody is certain but there’s a huge amount to supporting data. Please give a look at some of the posts in this thread.
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From the Wuhan lab? Funny, I heard it originated from the worm that set up a hammock inside your extrémité arrière.
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Facts aren't political wrote:
The fact is not that covid originated from the Wuhan lab. The fact is that the FBI, CIA, and DOE all said it's the most likely origin. I said this in my op and never said the lab leak origin is fact. Can you even read?
I can read. Can you?
Again, "lab leak orgin" is not just one theory, but a collection of multiple theories -- some of which include conspiracies. It's not clear from your post, and the "one minute of looking into this stuff up" which of the lab leak theories they assessed "most likely", and their factual basis for that assessment. Yet you accused your friend of being ignorant.
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must be a slow running sports day. Please Jakob, get well soon, we need you desperately :)
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