I could have gone your route and said that I said you seem sanctimonious but didn't call you that and if you felt insulted you must have had a sheltered life. But I'm still pretty sure you insulted me and felt like I should even things up.
No…you didn’t say I “seem” sanctimonious, which implies that it is open to interpretation and that there may be some doubt. Instead you stated that I “come off” as sanctimonious, which removes the doubt and is in effect, worse.
You might want to put that spade down and stop digging that hole now…because the irony is just too thick.
Fine. I just wanted to insult you back and I'll be done with this thread because I'm feeling more of a desire to.
So in the absence of an actual answer you go for an insult. Okay, I'm both obtuse and missing the point entirely so explain to me why you want to criticize another person's favorite activity.
If you think that me claiming that you were being obtuse is an insult, then you’ve lived a sheltered life.
You do realise that criticising an activity isn’t criticising the person doing it don’t you? Just checking. Only a person who’s self worth was totally wrapped up in the activity would think so.
Im not actually criticising the activity per se, but instead just the notion that the only reason that people run is to enter races and post times and aim for PB’s.
There is a strong consensus on this forum that anyone not posting times and entering races has nothing to offer, as though they are some sort of sub human, not worthy of consideration. Heck there are those on here who don’t even consider anyone’s opinion to be worthy, unless they can post a certain time or faster. I can’t be doing with that elitism…and that is where my criticism lies. And you know it’s true…unless the term “hobbyjogger” wouldn’t be bandied around so much. A derisory term if ever there was one, especially as it is used by some.
Funny how the true elites don't have that derisory attitude, but it’s the elite wannabes where it is prevalent.
Maybe this is your first encounter with this poster, a vain never-was with too much time on his hands who is a legend in his own mind and wears that identity on his sleeve.
No one is surprised by this. People running 15:00 for 5k aren’t training for the health benefits. They’re training to run the 5k as fast as possible.
I agree with this. The runners up front are competitors and not all have talent but they share the desire to better themselves and find their limits. People assume that we are all in this sport for the health benefits alone. Most competitive sports are not about being healthy and our sport is no different. When I was training hard years ago I was well aware that 40 minutes a day swimming or on an elliptical was far better for me than running 15 miles per day. I was not thinking of my health at all to be honest.
Some people do exercise for their health and jump in a race for fun every now and then. Included amongst them are some former competitive runners. There is nothing wrong with any of that either.
If you think that me claiming that you were being obtuse is an insult, then you’ve lived a sheltered life.
You do realise that criticising an activity isn’t criticising the person doing it don’t you? Just checking. Only a person who’s self worth was totally wrapped up in the activity would think so.
Im not actually criticising the activity per se, but instead just the notion that the only reason that people run is to enter races and post times and aim for PB’s.
There is a strong consensus on this forum that anyone not posting times and entering races has nothing to offer, as though they are some sort of sub human, not worthy of consideration. Heck there are those on here who don’t even consider anyone’s opinion to be worthy, unless they can post a certain time or faster. I can’t be doing with that elitism…and that is where my criticism lies. And you know it’s true…unless the term “hobbyjogger” wouldn’t be bandied around so much. A derisory term if ever there was one, especially as it is used by some.
Funny how the true elites don't have that derisory attitude, but it’s the elite wannabes where it is prevalent.
Maybe this is your first encounter with this poster, a vain never-was with too much time on his hands who is a legend in his own mind and wears that identity on his sleeve.
No one is surprised by this. People running 15:00 for 5k aren’t training for the health benefits. They’re training to run the 5k as fast as possible.
I agree with this. The runners up front are competitors and not all have talent but they share the desire to better themselves and find their limits. People assume that we are all in this sport for the health benefits alone. Most competitive sports are not about being healthy and our sport is no different. When I was training hard years ago I was well aware that 40 minutes a day swimming or on an elliptical was far better for me than running 15 miles per day. I was not thinking of my health at all to be honest.
Some people do exercise for their health and jump in a race for fun every now and then. Included amongst them are some former competitive runners. There is nothing wrong with any of that either.
I acknowledge that there are those who run for the competitive outlet first and foremost, and who probably don’t have much, if any regard for the health outcomes. If that is there thing, so be it. I can accept that.
However my experience on this forum is that the prevailing attitude from many is that racing should be the logical outcome of your endeavours. Many seem not to be able to comprehend that some either don’t want to race, or are not too bothered by obsessively chasing PBs. Believe it or not, there are some of us out there that run for reasons other than that…
If we’re gonna get all pop psychology about it, it’s human nature to try to justify your own survival by using various physical metrics. It’s not just running. Guys have their whole identities caught up in how much they can bench press, how fast they can bike, or how high they can kick.
But if you look at it intellectually, you realize nobody cares and it has zero market value.
I’ve come full circle in this regard. I took up running in middle age. Before that, I would just run 3 miles a couple times a week without caring about time. I thought constantly looking at your watch while running was silly. Then I got the bug. Got pretty good at racing. Now with over 100 races under my belt, I’m back to not giving a sh!t.
Man, if only there was somewhere you could just go for a run and enjoy some fresh air without having to worry about times or competing with others. Has anyone ever heard of a place like that?
Man, if only there was somewhere you could just go for a run and enjoy some fresh air without having to worry about times or competing with others. Has anyone ever heard of a place like that?
If you think that me claiming that you were being obtuse is an insult, then you’ve lived a sheltered life.
You do realise that criticising an activity isn’t criticising the person doing it don’t you? Just checking. Only a person who’s self worth was totally wrapped up in the activity would think so.
Im not actually criticising the activity per se, but instead just the notion that the only reason that people run is to enter races and post times and aim for PB’s.
There is a strong consensus on this forum that anyone not posting times and entering races has nothing to offer, as though they are some sort of sub human, not worthy of consideration. Heck there are those on here who don’t even consider anyone’s opinion to be worthy, unless they can post a certain time or faster. I can’t be doing with that elitism…and that is where my criticism lies. And you know it’s true…unless the term “hobbyjogger” wouldn’t be bandied around so much. A derisory term if ever there was one, especially as it is used by some.
Funny how the true elites don't have that derisory attitude, but it’s the elite wannabes where it is prevalent.
Maybe this is your first encounter with this poster, a vain never-was with too much time on his hands who is a legend in his own mind and wears that identity on his sleeve.
It is a first for me. Never heard of him before. Thanks.
M66 here: The world is not “either/or”. It is not black and white. I am both of those people you describe. I grew up too poor to pay for college. Running paid for my college. I was an underweight 100 mile a week runner who was, actually quite happy with my life then. I got older and I got “injured-er”. I gained weight, built some muscle and became that mid-pack guy that you describe as “modal”. I think you meant “model”.
I agree with this. The runners up front are competitors and not all have talent but they share the desire to better themselves and find their limits. People assume that we are all in this sport for the health benefits alone. Most competitive sports are not about being healthy and our sport is no different. When I was training hard years ago I was well aware that 40 minutes a day swimming or on an elliptical was far better for me than running 15 miles per day. I was not thinking of my health at all to be honest.
Some people do exercise for their health and jump in a race for fun every now and then. Included amongst them are some former competitive runners. There is nothing wrong with any of that either.
I acknowledge that there are those who run for the competitive outlet first and foremost, and who probably don’t have much, if any regard for the health outcomes. If that is there thing, so be it. I can accept that.
However my experience on this forum is that the prevailing attitude from many is that racing should be the logical outcome of your endeavours. Many seem not to be able to comprehend that some either don’t want to race, or are not too bothered by obsessively chasing PBs. Believe it or not, there are some of us out there that run for reasons other than that…
Yes, I agree. This board is more about the competitive aspects of running.
And yes, some are limited in their view of people getting out there for physical and also mental health needs. But, they might change their minds also when they get older and might step away from the competition.
I think some of the disparity is due to a lack of respect of our sport even being a sport. Most of the mid pack runners in the US don’t even know who Hocker or Neguse is. So I feel like a lot of the push back you might be experiencing is that this is one of the only places for competitive runners to have a voice.
I certainly respect those that are in this sport for reasons other than chasing time goals. And, honestly I think if you met most people here face to face you would have a nice conversation and feel pretty good about mutual respect when you did.
But, we’re on a mostly anonymous board with people that are hoping this space is maintained as one that discusses our sport at its highest levels. I think that is why other groups feel disrespected.
I acknowledge that there are those who run for the competitive outlet first and foremost, and who probably don’t have much, if any regard for the health outcomes. If that is there thing, so be it. I can accept that.
However my experience on this forum is that the prevailing attitude from many is that racing should be the logical outcome of your endeavours. Many seem not to be able to comprehend that some either don’t want to race, or are not too bothered by obsessively chasing PBs. Believe it or not, there are some of us out there that run for reasons other than that…
Yes, I agree. This board is more about the competitive aspects of running.
And yes, some are limited in their view of people getting out there for physical and also mental health needs. But, they might change their minds also when they get older and might step away from the competition.
I think some of the disparity is due to a lack of respect of our sport even being a sport. Most of the mid pack runners in the US don’t even know who Hocker or Neguse is. So I feel like a lot of the push back you might be experiencing is that this is one of the only places for competitive runners to have a voice.
I certainly respect those that are in this sport for reasons other than chasing time goals. And, honestly I think if you met most people here face to face you would have a nice conversation and feel pretty good about mutual respect when you did.
But, we’re on a mostly anonymous board with people that are hoping this space is maintained as one that discusses our sport at its highest levels. I think that is why other groups feel disrespected.
Yes, there is certainly an insecure, bitter undertone to this board. The sport is marginalized in the sports pantheon on top of slight-build males feeling marginalized in the mating game. So the self as well as the point of central focus both face disinterest in the general population. If there is no ultimate acceptance for either or both, antagonistic response is the likely result. It is rather common here so a troll job like the OP will typically elicit a reaction.
I acknowledge that there are those who run for the competitive outlet first and foremost, and who probably don’t have much, if any regard for the health outcomes. If that is there thing, so be it. I can accept that.
However my experience on this forum is that the prevailing attitude from many is that racing should be the logical outcome of your endeavours. Many seem not to be able to comprehend that some either don’t want to race, or are not too bothered by obsessively chasing PBs. Believe it or not, there are some of us out there that run for reasons other than that…
Yes, I agree. This board is more about the competitive aspects of running.
And yes, some are limited in their view of people getting out there for physical and also mental health needs. But, they might change their minds also when they get older and might step away from the competition.
I think some of the disparity is due to a lack of respect of our sport even being a sport. Most of the mid pack runners in the US don’t even know who Hocker or Neguse is. So I feel like a lot of the push back you might be experiencing is that this is one of the only places for competitive runners to have a voice.
I certainly respect those that are in this sport for reasons other than chasing time goals. And, honestly I think if you met most people here face to face you would have a nice conversation and feel pretty good about mutual respect when you did.
But, we’re on a mostly anonymous board with people that are hoping this space is maintained as one that discusses our sport at its highest levels. I think that is why other groups feel disrespected.
Good post…well articulated.
But here’s the thing…most on here would love to see their sport more popular, more widely loved and regarded, more participants ( more participants equals more races, and equals lower race entry fees). But that will never happen if new runners, or less talented runners are put off with some of the elitist snobbery I see frequently on this board. If someone is going to put in the effort that running demands, only to be sneered at, labelled a hobbyjogger, or shown derision for their slower times, they will soon give up and look elsewhere for a pastime. And word gets around. Which then puts others off from even trying.
So some of the guys on here either like being part of a small niche, or they are doing their level best to shoot themselves and the sport they profess to love, in the foot.