Correct me if I’m wrong, the article never states that she was caught doping or produced a positive test. ADAK claims she was “provisionally” suspended due to “evading”. So why is this whole thread jumping to a conclusion?
You are wrong, Rekrunner. Reading is fundamental: start with rule no. 1 of the current WADA code, and then report back to us.
Where are all the people from the last thread about Kenyans in the NCAA saying that anyone who was concerned about this practice is supporting "DEI" for American athletes?
They were so confident there and so quiet here. Come on, say it with your chest.
Sorry I'm not starting at this message board every minute, but I'm right here.
The great thing about treating people as individuals, no matter race or country of origin, is that I can say this runner shouldn't have been running and be disappointed that it wasn't caught earlier all while believing that foreign runners that haven't broken rules should be allowed to run.
I'm confident about that.
Standing behind the "rules" every time something like this inevitably happens is pathetic. You all know this kind of thing is morally and ethically reprehensible, and if these coaches had any sense of honor or shame they wouldn't need to hide beind the NCAA handbook.
Whistling while your opponent shoots in golf might not be against the "rules", but no one does it because it is a cowardly and shameful way to win. Hopefully the rules are changed soon, and you all will no longer be able to sell out your country for 30 pieces of silver while hiding behind them.
Correct me if I’m wrong, the article never states that she was caught doping or produced a positive test. ADAK claims she was “provisionally” suspended due to “evading”. So why is this whole thread jumping to a conclusion?
You are wrong, Rekrunner. Reading is fundamental: start with rule no. 1 of the current WADA code, and then report back to us.
Why do they call it an “anti-doping violation”? That sounds like a double negative, like she was suspended for not doping. You never hear about someone arrested for anti-drug crimes.
They call it an "Anti-doping Rule Violation (ADRV).
Note that a suspension is not an ADRV.
You might have heard of someone being arrested for breaking anti-drug laws.
Standing behind the "rules" every time something like this inevitably happens is pathetic. You all know this kind of thing is morally and ethically reprehensible, and if these coaches had any sense of honor or shame they wouldn't need to hide beind the NCAA handbook.
Whistling while your opponent shoots in golf might not be against the "rules", but no one does it because it is a cowardly and shameful way to win. Hopefully the rules are changed soon, and you all will no longer be able to sell out your country for 30 pieces of silver while hiding behind them.
Of course I'm going to stand behind the rules. I'm not going to stand behind someone's fantasy of what they think the rules should be.
If the rules change, and you get your way to disallow all foreign athletes, then I will stand behind those rules, too. Because those are the rules.
Standing behind the "rules" every time something like this inevitably happens is pathetic. You all know this kind of thing is morally and ethically reprehensible, and if these coaches had any sense of honor or shame they wouldn't need to hide beind the NCAA handbook.
Whistling while your opponent shoots in golf might not be against the "rules", but no one does it because it is a cowardly and shameful way to win. Hopefully the rules are changed soon, and you all will no longer be able to sell out your country for 30 pieces of silver while hiding behind them.
Of course I'm going to stand behind the rules. I'm not going to stand behind someone's fantasy of what they think the rules should be.
If the rules change, and you get your way to disallow all foreign athletes, then I will stand behind those rules, too. Because those are the rules.
Sell out my country? C'mon, man.
I’d oppose that rule pretty strongly. My little D3 track team had athletes from Australia, Japan, Ghana and India. It was a better team and a better college experience for it, and I would hate to see future athletes denied those opportunities.
Some more rudimentary detective work to investigate this claim:
Before she was picked up by Scholarbook, Caroline was a member of a club called Braveheart Runners, a team sponsored by Scott Running out of Iten and coached by Alistair Davidson. Link here:
Now, this is where things get interesting. Despite an active social media presence and frequent highlights of races, there is no mention whatsoever of the Kapsabet Half Marathon on Braveheart's Instagram. The only races mentioned around March 31, 2024 are the Kilimanjaro Half Marathon in Tanzania and a 20k race in Lausanne Switzerland.
Notice in both posts she has her trademark red hair, and races in either a white or black singlet with neon green highlights and Scott logo. And while they have a tendency to highlight what races they have next in many posts, no other posts make any mention of a race in Kapsabet.
I was able to find a video of the start of the Kapsabet Half here:
Nowhere is Caroline and her red hair or her white or black singlets visible, and none of the runners resemble her very closely. She certainly isn't among any of the front runners.
Now, its certainly possible that Braveheart Runners would have deleted a post after the fact, or that I'm not reviewing the race footage closely enough, but taken together I think its certainly possible that this Gingerlemon's post is a viable explanation as to what happened, or at the very least that there is more here than meets the eye
If you check properly you will see that Caroline Jeptanui is the athlete that appears in the 3rd picture of the Lausanne 20k instagram post you mention. You will also see that she hasn't got red hair.
Also, if you check closely on the youtube video you mention from the Kapsabet Half Marathon (precisely at timestamp 1:37), you will see Caroline Jeptanui wearing a blue asics shirt and wearing bib number 431 placed horizontally.
Maybe she doped, maybe she did not. What is for sure is that she raced and evaded a control. What remains unclear is if the people who helped her get a scholarship knew about her sanction or also helped her in covering it.
I’d oppose that rule pretty strongly. My little D3 track team had athletes from Australia, Japan, Ghana and India. It was a better team and a better college experience for it, and I would hate to see future athletes denied those opportunities.
Agreed. It would be stupid to disallow all foreign athletes.
To be fair to the other posters, they're talking about scholarships, and, obviously, D3 is not a part of that.
In the end, I think age limits make the most sense, no matter which country the athlete is born in or which religion they are raised with.
I’d oppose that rule pretty strongly. My little D3 track team had athletes from Australia, Japan, Ghana and India. It was a better team and a better college experience for it, and I would hate to see future athletes denied those opportunities.
Agreed. It would be stupid to disallow all foreign athletes.
To be fair to the other posters, they're talking about scholarships, and, obviously, D3 is not a part of that.
In the end, I think age limits make the most sense, no matter which country the athlete is born in or which religion they are raised with.
But is the point to have a better team at all costs, which taken to the extreme involves bringing in foreign athletes with little to no interest in academics and massive advantage in competitive experience? It's a zero sum game, meaning bringing in foreigners takes away opportunities from domestic athletes. Shouldn't our resources go towards building our own athletes and maximizing opportunities for our own students?
The recruitment of foreign athletes should serve only one purpose - to make domestic athletes better, regardless of the latters' potential to exceed at the next level. For that reason, I agree that we should let in some foreigners to push our athletes and prepare them to compete at a high level, but there should be limits to how many per team.
As for age, there are no college requirements related to age, so why should college sports? If someone wants to "throw away" their prime years doing church service or military or backpacking around the world, which reduces the amount of time they could run professionally, more power to them.
Agreed. It would be stupid to disallow all foreign athletes.
To be fair to the other posters, they're talking about scholarships, and, obviously, D3 is not a part of that.
In the end, I think age limits make the most sense, no matter which country the athlete is born in or which religion they are raised with.
But is the point to have a better team at all costs, which taken to the extreme involves bringing in foreign athletes with little to no interest in academics and massive advantage in competitive experience? It's a zero sum game, meaning bringing in foreigners takes away opportunities from domestic athletes. Shouldn't our resources go towards building our own athletes and maximizing opportunities for our own students?
The recruitment of foreign athletes should serve only one purpose - to make domestic athletes better, regardless of the latters' potential to exceed at the next level. For that reason, I agree that we should let in some foreigners to push our athletes and prepare them to compete at a high level, but there should be limits to how many per team.
As for age, there are no college requirements related to age, so why should college sports? If someone wants to "throw away" their prime years doing church service or military or backpacking around the world, which reduces the amount of time they could run professionally, more power to them.
No, the point isn't to have a better team at all costs. If that were the point, Oregon's roster, with its ties to Nike and Nike's incredible network all over the world, could easily be dominated by foreign athletes. But that's not the point for all coaches. Not all coaches are interested in recruiting overseas simply to win a national title. Some are more comfortable and some less so.
Our resources? The school provides the funding for athletic scholarships. If you Google it, you'll see where that funding comes from.
The purpose of recruiting foreign athletes should be to see who wants to attend school, and, in this case, be a runner. The purpose of a university is not to bring in labor for domestic athletes. If you think foreign athletes have little to no interest in academics, wait until you talk to some football and basketball players.
I'm not sure what you're saying about age. I think there should be an age limit for Division I and II athletics due to the athletic scholarship implications. If athletes are older than the limit, there is always Division III where anyone can pursue their educational and athletic endeavors.
Tulane coach needs to be suspended. That will go a long way towards cracking down on this nonsense. Coaches need to be held responsible for who they recruit and allow to compete on their teams with respect to eligibility, no matter where they come from (but especially if they come from a radioactive place like Kenya).
Adrian absolutely knew about this suspension. She places 12th at NCAAs then doesn't race till the week before conference meets at a low key LSU meet to get a time for 3k/5k purposes at conference?
Can't say she didn't race due to injury. If that is the case why was she entered in 3 events for their conference meet? This is what "win at all cost" mentality does to you. The case is far from over, many coaches taking next steps to see that Tulane program is properly evaluated.
Adrian did some shady business leaving Purdue to NIU. Your decisions will always come back to get you, especially when you feel the need to flaunt them to "hype up" your program.
But is the point to have a better team at all costs, which taken to the extreme involves bringing in foreign athletes with little to no interest in academics and massive advantage in competitive experience? It's a zero sum game, meaning bringing in foreigners takes away opportunities from domestic athletes. Shouldn't our resources go towards building our own athletes and maximizing opportunities for our own students?
The recruitment of foreign athletes should serve only one purpose - to make domestic athletes better, regardless of the latters' potential to exceed at the next level. For that reason, I agree that we should let in some foreigners to push our athletes and prepare them to compete at a high level, but there should be limits to how many per team.
As for age, there are no college requirements related to age, so why should college sports? If someone wants to "throw away" their prime years doing church service or military or backpacking around the world, which reduces the amount of time they could run professionally, more power to them.
No, the point isn't to have a better team at all costs. If that were the point, Oregon's roster, with its ties to Nike and Nike's incredible network all over the world, could easily be dominated by foreign athletes. But that's not the point for all coaches. Not all coaches are interested in recruiting overseas simply to win a national title. Some are more comfortable and some less so.
Our resources? The school provides the funding for athletic scholarships. If you Google it, you'll see where that funding comes from.
The purpose of recruiting foreign athletes should be to see who wants to attend school, and, in this case, be a runner. The purpose of a university is not to bring in labor for domestic athletes. If you think foreign athletes have little to no interest in academics, wait until you talk to some football and basketball players.
I'm not sure what you're saying about age. I think there should be an age limit for Division I and II athletics due to the athletic scholarship implications. If athletes are older than the limit, there is always Division III where anyone can pursue their educational and athletic endeavors.
Age limits violate US antidiscrimination laws. Age Discrimination Act of 1975
Section 6102. Prohibition of discrimination Pursuant to regulations prescribed under section 6103 of this title, and except as provided by section 6103(b) of this title and section 6103(c) of this title, no person in the United States shall, on the basis of age, be excluded from participation, in be denied the benefits of, or be subjected to discrimination under, any program or activity receiving Federal financial assistance.
Tulane coach needs to be suspended. That will go a long way towards cracking down on this nonsense. Coaches need to be held responsible for who they recruit and allow to compete on their teams with respect to eligibility, no matter where they come from (but especially if they come from a radioactive place like Kenya).
Adrian absolutely knew about this suspension. She places 12th at NCAAs then doesn't race till the week before conference meets at a low key LSU meet to get a time for 3k/5k purposes at conference?
Can't say she didn't race due to injury. If that is the case why was she entered in 3 events for their conference meet? This is what "win at all cost" mentality does to you. The case is far from over, many coaches taking next steps to see that Tulane program is properly evaluated.
Adrian did some shady business leaving Purdue to NIU. Your decisions will always come back to get you, especially when you feel the need to flaunt them to "hype up" your program.
You may be right but this is not reality. Adrian and his staff just received conference coach of the year. THAT IS WHAT IS GOING ON RIGHT NOW.
Seems like an important question hasn't yet been asked.
What is the NCAA's obligation, or policy? Is the NCAA a WADA signatory? According to USADA:
"Most professional sports leagues and the NCAA are not WADA Code signatories, and they conduct their own anti-doping programs in-house."
Hell ya! High five rek - its all about winning. Banned by WADA? I got a scholarship for you!
If you say so.
Again, what is the NCAA's obligation, or policy, in such a case? When Gault says "she shouldn’t have even been competing in the meet", is that an NCAA rule that exists? Or is it a rule that doesn't exist, but should?
I wouldn't have any problem with the NCAA annulling past results and adapting their rules. But in principle, WADA's reach is limited to those who agree to it.
Note she is not "banned by WADA", but provisionally suspension by ADAK.
Note also that ADAK hasn't published the provisional suspension. How are the NCAA supposed to know if the information is not public? Who would have known besides Jeptanui?
Correctamundo, Rekbot! Banned dopers are allowed to do lots of things, like winning half marathons and setting beer mile world records and training at Nike's facilities and coincidentally running with BTC and competing in the NCAA.
No, the point isn't to have a better team at all costs. If that were the point, Oregon's roster, with its ties to Nike and Nike's incredible network all over the world, could easily be dominated by foreign athletes. But that's not the point for all coaches. Not all coaches are interested in recruiting overseas simply to win a national title. Some are more comfortable and some less so.
Our resources? The school provides the funding for athletic scholarships. If you Google it, you'll see where that funding comes from.
The purpose of recruiting foreign athletes should be to see who wants to attend school, and, in this case, be a runner. The purpose of a university is not to bring in labor for domestic athletes. If you think foreign athletes have little to no interest in academics, wait until you talk to some football and basketball players.
I'm not sure what you're saying about age. I think there should be an age limit for Division I and II athletics due to the athletic scholarship implications. If athletes are older than the limit, there is always Division III where anyone can pursue their educational and athletic endeavors.
Age limits violate US antidiscrimination laws. Age Discrimination Act of 1975
Section 6102. Prohibition of discrimination Pursuant to regulations prescribed under section 6103 of this title, and except as provided by section 6103(b) of this title and section 6103(c) of this title, no person in the United States shall, on the basis of age, be excluded from participation, in be denied the benefits of, or be subjected to discrimination under, any program or activity receiving Federal financial assistance.
That would be an interesting question for the courts. In the past, though, it looks like the court has ruled in favor of the NCAA.
Correctamundo, Rekbot! Banned dopers are allowed to do lots of things, like winning half marathons and setting beer mile world records and training at Nike's facilities and coincidentally running with BTC and competing in the NCAA.
I'm not Rekbot.
I thought this thread was about a provisional suspension (for evasion? and tampering with sample collection?).
What does the NCAA's policies say about that? Seems like a relevant question to ask first.