everyone here is debating speed over final 400 but i dont think that's the real focus. I think we're talking the final 120 where it's all turnover and mechanics. In this, Jakob is probably not even top 7. But his ability to close over 5-400m is good enough that in most of his races the final 80m doesn't matter
I agree with this. When he's outkicked, it's in the last straight, and I don't see a final gear like a Hocker has. But flat out last 400, yeah, he is as fast or faster than anyone.
Then why does he race like an idiot? Why doesn’t he take the lead with 400 to go an win easily? Because he isn’t as fast. If he let them run a 3:45 pace, the top guys would drop a 49 and Jacob would be 1s back..
You're all saying the same thing and just being stubborn about acknowledging the other is right. Its annoying. He got outkicked. Everyone knows that. His kick was also compromised from leading. You have to agree with that if you've ever run competitively in your life. So both statements are correct. The poster who said Jacob doesn't have a kicking problem but a tactics problem hit the nail on the head. When Jacob doesn't lead he often kicks better than anyone in the field.
Armstrong has never run before so he does not understand what you are saying.
Jakob didn't lose the last Olympic final because he lacked acceleration in the final 100m. He lost because he had less in the tank than his competitors (largely due to his attempt to lead wire to wire).
I don't know if you guys have all raced a lot of 1500s, but your acceleration and raw 400 speed really don't matter when you are locking up in the last 250. Your overall fitness is what matters most.
These things matter in slow championship races where you are ~10 seconds off your personal best and everyone is fresh. In those cases, positioning, acceleration, and raw speed do matter (and probably in that order). In a race where everyone is within a couple seconds of their best, overall fitness and overall race execution (conserving energy, having a lane to make your home run in) matter far more.
Without Winston Churchill’s Great Britain, and to a certain extent without Josh Kerr, America would never be the superpower it is today!
What the fvck has Josh Kerr done for America? The only things he has done that have had any effect on America is buying a cybertruck(give us more money), and stop Nuguse from getting a silver medal.
Yeah man, Hocker’s ability to change his rate of acceleration is really good. He lost momentum after being cut off by Jakob, but revved it back up in such a short distance. It was beautiful.
Rate of acceleration? What is that - the rate of change of the rate of change of speed? Pretty sure that's not a thing
Nope it is how fast someone speeds up. It is a weird term but it is correct.
I can hardly wait to see how Jakob claps back on Hobbs:
'I will take him seriously when he wins any medal in any outdoor championship, whether Olympics or worlds. Or a Diamond League. Or even wins his own national meet.'
Has Hobbs ever won ANY major race, other than the one-mile at the "World Road Running Championships"? 😆 (A "world record" that an 800m man Wanyoni easily smashed by two seconds the next year, in his first and only run at the distance.)
No. Hobbs has not done any of these things. This guy, who has never won a major race, is talking crap about a multiple 1500m/5000m WC/OG winner's kicking ability. Remarkable.
Has anyone found an example of Hobbs actually winning a major race, ever?
Anyone?
Anyone?
The World Road Running Championships mile. In WR time as well. Truly the GOAT. Jakob has to respect him for his record that will never fall.
Yeah man, Hocker’s ability to change his rate of acceleration is really good. He lost momentum after being cut off by Jakob, but revved it back up in such a short distance. It was beautiful.
Rate of acceleration? What is that - the rate of change of the rate of change of speed? Pretty sure that's not a thing
Yep. If I had used the proper word (jerk), it would have gone over most everyone’s head.
I can hardly wait to see how Jakob claps back on Hobbs:
'I will take him seriously when he wins any medal in any outdoor championship, whether Olympics or worlds. Or a Diamond League. Or even wins his own national meet.'
Has Hobbs ever won ANY major race, other than the one-mile at the "World Road Running Championships"? 😆 (A "world record" that an 800m man Wanyoni easily smashed by two seconds the next year, in his first and only run at the distance.)
No. Hobbs has not done any of these things. This guy, who has never won a major race, is talking crap about a multiple 1500m/5000m WC/OG winner's kicking ability. Remarkable.
Has anyone found an example of Hobbs actually winning a major race, ever?
Anyone?
Anyone?
I don’t understand why you think Hobbs can’t comment. He didn’t crap on Jakob. He stayed the obvious.
Jakob has gotten outkicked in 4 successive champion 1500m races.
Jakob would probably agree with Hobbs with is why feels the need to lead.
Jakob didn't lose the last Olympic final because he lacked acceleration in the final 100m. He lost because he had less in the tank than his competitors (largely due to his attempt to lead wire to wire).
I don't know if you guys have all raced a lot of 1500s, but your acceleration and raw 400 speed really don't matter when you are locking up in the last 250. Your overall fitness is what matters most.
These things matter in slow championship races where you are ~10 seconds off your personal best and everyone is fresh. In those cases, positioning, acceleration, and raw speed do matter (and probably in that order). In a race where everyone is within a couple seconds of their best, overall fitness and overall race execution (conserving energy, having a lane to make your home run in) matter far more.
Of course he lost because of lack of accelleration in the last 100m. If he had a kick he wouldn’t have tried to front run. He would have sat and kicked like he did in the 5000m. He isn’t an idiot. He thought he could make up for his weakness by being a couple seconds faster than the field. He wasn’t…
The last heat in the men's 1500m saw defending Olympic gold medalist Jakob Ingebrigtsen and reigning world champion Josh Kerr face off. Ingebrigtsen won the heat with a time of 3:32.38, .08 faster than Kerr.
i want to see someone or a couple of duded pace the group to 1250m 330 ish pace. where everybody has some sting on their kick, and it's for real, not jog to the bell type deal.
you are correct. Kessler is an idiot, the same as Kerr would be to say this. The difference is that Kessler isn't really at a level where this is worth responding to. But I will anyway.
Funny thing is, despite leading the whole race and being at a tremendous disadvantage for it, Jakob still had a faster final 400 than Kessler. He had a faster final 300. He had a faster final 200. He had a faster final 100.
If you watch the interview, Kessler says as much. I think even in the intro to the interview one of the clips that plays is him saying "They put 2 seconds on me in the final 150m" but he was saying how this year it's going to be different.
I agree with the person that said Jakob's last 400m kick is as good as or better as anyone's. It's the last ~100m acceleration that he's lacking in (compared to the other top 5 guys in the world), but as Hobbs said, most of the time he's far enough ahead that it doesn't matter. With that said, I think Hocker has something special in the last 120m that no one else has, and that's what won him the Olympics, and that's what'll make him incredibly hard to beat going forward.
Kick comes down to the last 100m, as you indicate. That's where Ingebrigtsen is vulnerable if he hasn't put enough distance between himself and the rest.
An admittedly vibes based assessment, but until he runs 1:43 or outkicks Hocker, Nuguse, and Kerr in a slower race, I'll stick by it. Maybe if he was running Millrose he could prove me wrong, but alas, he's dodging the competition.
Many in this thread act as if Jakob races the way he does because he does not have a kick...it is very much not that. He wants to win in the best way possible which is running the fastest time and gapping his competitors. Outkicking someone by a few hundredths of a second is not as impressive as flat out gapping them by over 20 meters by making the others hurt the whole way. No other form of running is as excellent as that, especially in middle distance to distance running. I can see an argument for him not having the best acceleration/sprinter build, but that is almost insignificant in races that go faster than 3:40. It is usually who ran the best race (expended the least amount of energy, ran the least amount of distance, lowest lactate at the bell, strongest runner), that's what it comes down to.
It didn't work very well for him in Paris, did it? You fans are so blind. I've seen all the great 1500 runners since Elliott and in terms of sprint capacity Ingebrigtsen stands out as the slowest of them all. There is a gear they had that he doesn't. He is an endurance athlete, not a speedster.
You're all saying the same thing and just being stubborn about acknowledging the other is right. Its annoying. He got outkicked. Everyone knows that. His kick was also compromised from leading. You have to agree with that if you've ever run competitively in your life. So both statements are correct. The poster who said Jacob doesn't have a kicking problem but a tactics problem hit the nail on the head. When Jacob doesn't lead he often kicks better than anyone in the field.
Armstrong has never run before so he does not understand what you are saying.
What I understand is the Ingebrigtsen has been routinely outkicked by Kerr (3 times), Hocker, Nuguse and Wightman so that he hasn't won a global championship in nearly 4 years. As a 1:43 800 runner against Ingebrigtsen's 1:46 Kessler has the speed to add to that growing list.
When Jakob did his 3:27.14 in Silesia, his final 100m was covered in 13.3
His 3:30.37 in Brussels had a final 100m of 12.9
His semi-final in Budapest (3:34.98) had a final 100m of 12.47
And in Lausanne last year, it seemed like Jakob had no problem outkicking both Hocker and Kessler by a comfortable margin. Pretty close between the three of them with 150m remaining, and he still beat Hocker with 2.02s and Kessler with 2.64s.
Jakob is not the slowpoke that so many makes him out to be.
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