With the board of ed on the chopping block this might be a state issue. So, states like Massachusetts 5 days per week and states like Alabama 2-3 days per week.
I work for a school district that went to a four day week a couple of years ago.
Main reason was to recruit and retain teachers, as my school district is one of the rougher ones in the metro area (Daily fights, drug use, attendance issues). Initially switching to four days has proven successful in its mission of attracting new teachers, and retaining. Teacher opinion is split with some loving it, and some would want to go back to five day weeks if it meant easier kids.
On the coaching front, it has made school days extremely long, with being at school from 6:45 - 5:30, with many starting to feel burnt out. On our day off, attendance across all sports has been pretty bad with transportation issues or kids having to work.
As for student achievement, our data is showing that it didn't impact them at all on test scores. I think this is linked to teachers feeling a bit more refreshed so that they actually teach bell to bell every day.
Unless all industries go four days, I don't think any of the better off suburban schools will ever go to four day, because they have no problems attracting teachers, and have decent pay. I think you are going to see it mainly in inner city and rural school districts. Inner City because of the rise in classroom management nightmares, and rural because they can't pay enough to keep up with rising costs in their areas, with many teachers only using their schools as a one year springboard to bigger/better districts.
As for teacher pay, it is a tough issue to hash through. I agree that there needs to be more accountability in schools to make sure that teachers are giving their best. MOST teachers I work with go above and beyond for their students, which includes grading/lesson planning at night. There are a few that just give out online work like a glorified study hall, gets paid the same. Maybe get rid of tenure?
One of my biggest issues is that most school districts are forcing their teachers to get their masters degree by a certain point. You do move up on the pay scale, but only a minuscule amount compared to most other industries requiring a masters.
For those talking about performance based pay, I get you, but many fail to realize that teachers do not control which students are entering their classrooms, so not every teacher in a subject/grade are getting the same "talent". Would you pay based off of reaching a bench mark or off of student growth? Whose the better coach? The coach that gets a 4:30 miler and takes him to 4:10, or the coach who get a 6:00 miler and takes him to 4:50?
Remember the old saying, "if you think education is expensive, try ignorance." The recent elections have proven we have way too much of that. We are also apparently watering down Athletics which eventually also waters down the sprinting events...don' cha' no' My guess is mos' people jus don git it.
I also thought teachers were quitting because public schools were becoming lawless war zones populated by packs of nearly feral entitled brats with no accountability? Is this true or a Republican talking point?
Exaggeration. That being said, I work in a very tame suburban district. Kids are way smarter at earlier ages because of strict state standards and it is a bit exhausting to keep up with them. They like to be challenged.
Why are teachers always everyone's punching bag. Like getting summers off makes their jobs any less hard. A lot of other countries give similar time off. Summer also basically means 2 months now -- July & August. They do all sorts of prep time at home. They spend their own money on their kids. So many corporations & workers in other countries have gone to 4 days/week. What's the point of even doing this.
I totally agree with you. teachers get bashed all the time. I’ve been a teacher and HS coach for over 25 years. Work nonstop and easily have done 12 hours days for two decades. yes summers off, but a lot of teachers work in the summer, take classes, attend conferences (usually on their own dime) and have to do professional development to maintain their license.
Let’s bash businessmen for once. My buddies in business make 3-4 x what I make and have $75-125 “business lunch” stipends. They don’t get summers off, but you tell me who’s really taking the piss, the teacher who gets a 30 minute lunch break where they are ON duty watching kids or these f£cks who take a 2 hour lunch to eat lobster and get some hand job from their coworker.
I totally agree with you. teachers get bashed all the time. I’ve been a teacher and HS coach for over 25 years. Work nonstop and easily have done 12 hours days for two decades. yes summers off, but a lot of teachers work in the summer, take classes, attend conferences (usually on their own dime) and have to do professional development to maintain their license.
Let’s bash businessmen for once. My buddies in business make 3-4 x what I make and have $75-125 “business lunch” stipends. They don’t get summers off, but you tell me who’s really taking the piss, the teacher who gets a 30 minute lunch break where they are ON duty watching kids or these f£cks who take a 2 hour lunch to eat lobster and get some hand job from their coworker.
100%. My wife is a teacher and I literally slide food in front of her so she can keep working when she gets home at night. My work in the private sector can be a grind, but it's a much different pace. Not a lot of hand job lobster lunches, but I have lots of moments to chat with other adults during the day, sometimes over coffee, lunches out, staff "team building" outings, holiday parties, etc. She doesn't have time to check email. Sure, she could dial it back and still get paid, but to mail it in as a teacher is death - the same things that make her a good teacher are the same things that just about destroy her. I'm not sure the 4-day work week is the solution, but if you asked her what she wants, it's not more pay, it's more time.
Presently I work for a local university supervising student teachers. Pre-Covid there were three supervisors that worked with secondary (HS & MS) social studies student teachers. We each had 4 to 5 candidates during the spring semester. This upcoming spring, I will be the only supervisor for secondary social studies and I will have 1 student teacher. Starting salary for a first year teacher in the local school district is $56K ($26.92 per hour based on a 40 hour work week) The average hours projected for a first year teacher in that district is 50 hours per week for 40 weeks (8 weeks less than the average US worker.) For those wondering the first year teacher will work approx. 2,000 hours while the average US worker will work a little over 1,900 (48 weeks at 40 hours per week.) When my niece was teaching in NYC, she was dating a young man that worked in the private sector. While she was grading and prepping, his social group couldn't understand why?? After three years she also wondered why? She now works in the private sector.
Presently I work for a local university supervising student teachers. Pre-Covid there were three supervisors that worked with secondary (HS & MS) social studies student teachers. We each had 4 to 5 candidates during the spring semester. This upcoming spring, I will be the only supervisor for secondary social studies and I will have 1 student teacher. Starting salary for a first year teacher in the local school district is $56K ($26.92 per hour based on a 40 hour work week) The average hours projected for a first year teacher in that district is 50 hours per week for 40 weeks (8 weeks less than the average US worker.) For those wondering the first year teacher will work approx. 2,000 hours while the average US worker will work a little over 1,900 (48 weeks at 40 hours per week.) When my niece was teaching in NYC, she was dating a young man that worked in the private sector. While she was grading and prepping, his social group couldn't understand why?? After three years she also wondered why? She now works in the private sector.
in my state, the gap between gas station clerk pay and first year teacher pay is getting pretty narrow, probably a wash in some places, if you calculate it hourly. And if you work at the gas station, you can leave the job there. My wife sits in on interviews for new teachers and they get very few candidates these days and the quality is not good, compared to even a decade ago. Meanwhile, outside the school, I keep running into former teachers who have found that their skills transfer to other things pretty well. I recently met an insurance agent who could not be happier with her career change. She makes more money and at night, she does whatever she wants.
I'm a retired teacher. I don't see how that will retain teachers unless it's seen as a way to justify low pay so the teachers have a 3 day weekend to get an additional job.
I didn't read the article and I'm not going to waste my time. Pay teachers and have high standards for them.j
Hold teachers accountable. Pay them according to the results their students achieve in standardized tests. End teachers free Ride without accountability.
To many politics on which teachers get the better students. It's true and such successes would be determined by the guidance counselors. And please...are you all for the corrupt Department of Education? How has education in America improved since it was formed? How much $$$ is made off of all of these tests you want to be the ultimate measurement? In some states, questions asked were found to not even be related to mandatory curriculum in some states. They are HOT mess. I'm down the middle politically, a long time teacher, and anti-teacher union in many, but not all situations. Don't put it all on the teachers. First of all...get better administrators! Enough on that one, except for the fact they fell it's more important to check the political boxes rather than manage the educational process at their school site. Fine parents for dropping their kids off late to school or allowing them to miss, because they cannot handle their children. Fine them again for incomplete assignments. Fine them again for behaviors that affect the educational process. Fine them for allowing them to much screen time. It's a waste of tax payer dollars and we could go on and on. Education is a triangle where the teachers, student, and parents each have a corner. If one of these corners fail...so does the triangle. Most of all fine them for allowing their kids to be fat and overweight and playing a part in the process. Bring CPS charges against them, because it is child abuse. Why not save tons of money wasted on the corrupt medical system as well?
This video close to the truth. We live in a society with few norms and fewer consequences. There is one kid in every 10 like this. That means in a room with 30 kids, you have three kids who are basically "off the rails."
And what should the teachers do about it? If the kid wants to be suspended (stay home to play video games) and already has a F in the class, then it isn't like there is a lot a teacher could do. Or is there a solution we haven't heard about yet?
And what if the parents have just as little control as the schools? What then?
I'm a retired teacher. I don't see how that will retain teachers unless it's seen as a way to justify low pay so the teachers have a 3 day weekend to get an additional job.
I didn't read the article and I'm not going to waste my time. Pay teachers and have high standards for them.
Hold teachers accountable. Pay them according to the results their students achieve in standardized tests. End teachers free Ride without accountability.
Can I beat your kids or threaten violence if they refuse to do what I ask? I mean, if my own childrens' livelihood is dependent on your lazy, disrespectful brat, I should be able to kick him out permanently so he doesn't count (give me a classroom full of suburban middle/upper class Caitlins and Emilys please)... or at least kick his ass until he complies and does the work I assign.
While I'm at it... can I refuse to teach kids whose parents aren't present or supportive?
Can I demand classrooms with no special needs kids and only 15 per class? No more than 40% boys?
Allow me these conditions and sure, pay me based on my test scores. Hold me accountable, sure. I better get a damn bonus when my students score well beyond benchmark. F yeah!
Why are teachers always everyone's punching bag. Like getting summers off makes their jobs any less hard. A lot of other countries give similar time off. Summer also basically means 2 months now -- July & August. They do all sorts of prep time at home. They spend their own money on their kids. So many corporations & workers in other countries have gone to 4 days/week. What's the point of even doing this.
Teachers are everyone's punching bag because everyone has gone to school. Everyone at least has a working knowledge of what the day is like, what the setting is, etc. Most people have no idea what a day is like for a corporate lawyer, sales agent, accountant, corporate finance, engineer, or other professions.
Since everyone has been to school, everyone feels like they can give their opinion.
This post was edited 19 seconds after it was posted.
Teachers are everyone's punching bag because everyone has gone to school. Everyone at least has a working knowledge of what the day is like, what the setting is, etc. Most people have no idea what a day is like for a corporate lawyer, sales agent, accountant, corporate finance, engineer, or other professions.
Since everyone has been to school, everyone feels like they can give their opinion.
Yes. And to top it off, we all had that one teacher who was a slacker, just showed movies every day, handed out the same worksheets year after year and never did anything. Those people do exist.
But that is only like 1 out of 20 teachers. The other 95% are on the grind, doing a thousand other things to keep the ship of American civilization from capsizing. Those teachers work with insane parents, entitled kids, angry communities, needy students, non-English speakers, special needs kids, violent youth, trans youth, cell phone addicted kids, and old-school doofuses. It must be a lot for them and honestly, the fact that 5% of the teachers are slackers only makes it harder for the real 95%...
It is like same with cops. Don't you think 5% of cops just eat donuts and hand out speeding tickets? What about crappy workers in any industry? Of course 5% of any group is just collecting a check. That is nothing special for teachers...
Why are teachers always everyone's punching bag. Like getting summers off makes their jobs any less hard. A lot of other countries give similar time off. Summer also basically means 2 months now -- July & August. They do all sorts of prep time at home. They spend their own money on their kids. So many corporations & workers in other countries have gone to 4 days/week. What's the point of even doing this.
Teachers are everyone's punching bag because everyone has gone to school. Everyone at least has a working knowledge of what the day is like, what the setting is, etc. Most people have no idea what a day is like for a corporate lawyer, sales agent, accountant, corporate finance, engineer, or other professions.
Since everyone has been to school, everyone feels like they can give their opinion.
I have a friend who says the two hardest jobs are teaching and coaching because everyone has gone to school and everyone has either played a sport or watched their kid play. Thus every parent thinks that they are an expert.
Hold teachers accountable. Pay them according to the results their students achieve in standardized tests. End teachers free Ride without accountability.
Can I beat your kids or threaten violence if they refuse to do what I ask? I mean, if my own childrens' livelihood is dependent on your lazy, disrespectful brat, I should be able to kick him out permanently so he doesn't count (give me a classroom full of suburban middle/upper class Caitlins and Emilys please)... or at least kick his ass until he complies and does the work I assign.
While I'm at it... can I refuse to teach kids whose parents aren't present or supportive?
Can I demand classrooms with no special needs kids and only 15 per class? No more than 40% boys?
Allow me these conditions and sure, pay me based on my test scores. Hold me accountable, sure. I better get a damn bonus when my students score well beyond benchmark. F yeah!
One daughter teaches at a college prep school. High pay motivated students supportive parents. All kids do well or their parents would make sure they are accountable. Other daughter did 2yrs teach for America basically for free in Cleveland which was 2 yrs of hell. It's all about the parents. Absenteeism, wouldn't do the class work or homework, no fathers etc. Hate to say it but ducation is 90% about parents or lack thereof.
Hold teachers accountable. Pay them according to the results their students achieve in standardized tests. End teachers free Ride without accountability.
Can I beat your kids or threaten violence if they refuse to do what I ask? I mean, if my own childrens' livelihood is dependent on your lazy, disrespectful brat, I should be able to kick him out permanently so he doesn't count (give me a classroom full of suburban middle/upper class Caitlins and Emilys please)... or at least kick his ass until he complies and does the work I assign.
While I'm at it... can I refuse to teach kids whose parents aren't present or supportive?
Can I demand classrooms with no special needs kids and only 15 per class? No more than 40% boys?
Allow me these conditions and sure, pay me based on my test scores. Hold me accountable, sure. I better get a damn bonus when my students score well beyond benchmark. F yeah!
One daughter teaches at a college prep school. High pay motivated students supportive parents. All kids do well or their parents would make sure they are accountable. Other daughter did 2yrs teach for America basically for free in Cleveland which was 2 yrs of hell. It's all about the parents. Absenteeism, wouldn't do the class work or homework, no fathers etc. Hate to say it but ducation is 90% about parents or lack thereof.