PEDs have been around since the 70s. This is not a result of PEDs alone. If it were, 2:10 would have been broke long ago. This is a result of PEDs and cheat shoes with an emphasis on cheat-shoes. Legalized PED.
"I am unclear why she is being maligned so much more than anyone else."
This is the greatest running feat of all time that is why. This is more of an outlier than Bolt, Kipchoge, Kiptum, and i'd put it right above FloJo. It's so easy to put a finger on as doped performance that more people are going to be loud about it.
"At that level, they are all on drugs"
I don't understand why people say this as if it's a defense. You ask why are people outraged, and then follow up with the answer. We know they are all on drug, and it frustrating to see it happen over and over again. Do you expect us to just celebrate a drugged performance? Should we give lance his Tours back? No. We want the sport to be better so we are going to call it out.
I’d say this record is better than FloJo’s 100 and 200 or Marita Koch’s 400 or Kratochvílová‘s 800 or even Wang Junxia’s 3000. So, yeah, a little suspicious!
FYI, the Wikipedia page for track world records has IAAF scores for each, and these show just how much of an outlier this new world record is
This stuff isn't even worth debating, pro running is out of control, runners vying for big prize money, remember any time big money is involved people will cheat in any venue, not just athletics. Running with carbon plated spring loaded shoes and juiced on EPO, Steroids and whatever else they are using has turned the sport into a clown show. Burfoot is right to call this out especially in light of the fact Kenya has become the new East Germany of the past.
What is she (and Korir - ya… I can close a marathon in 60:25. I don’t care that my PB has been 2:05 for a few years) on????
It’s something new
Oh ya…
…and his last 15km was run in 42:33 (US record is 42:22), which is 1:59:42 pace.
His 15km PB? 42:11 from July 2024.
Amazing run for a “nobody”
You didn't read the article either.
On the one hand, you have a person with a HM PB of 64:08, equiv to 2:14:00 which she has done before, now going and doing 64:15/65:41 for 2:09:56 which is a massive outlier on any projection, and equivalent to 62:00
Versus someone who has a 58:50, equiv to 2:02:57, doing a 'conservative' 62:19 followed by 60:24, a full 90 sec outside his PB and a marathon close to projection.
This is what the red flags are. Out of the projection range and splits that don't make sense. If Korir had done 59 flat in his first half, you can be guarranteed he would have blown up. That is what running at half PB is supposed to do...but not for Ruth, a mere slowing by 90 sec
BTW: they should both disclose their hematocrit levels post race. They should also freeze their blood samples and retest them when they find a proper test for the stuff which is now available
I really would be interested to know what her hgb/hct was pre-race.
BTW: they should both disclose their hematocrit levels post race. They should also freeze their blood samples and retest them when they find a proper test for the stuff which is now available
I really would be interested to know what her hgb/hct was pre-race.
Though, I think there is something else currently out there that works to boost performance in a completely different way than traditional anabolics and epo/blood bags. Maybe something more at the mitochondrial level? Something that negates lactic acid buildup? I’m sounding like a tinfoil hat lad now, but something has drastically changed.
I really would be interested to know what her hgb/hct was pre-race.
Though, I think there is something else currently out there that works to boost performance in a completely different way than traditional anabolics and epo/blood bags. Maybe something more at the mitochondrial level? Something that negates lactic acid buildup? I’m sounding like a tinfoil hat lad now, but something has drastically changed.
Yep, shoes. Ban the shoes and this ridiculous nonsense will stop overnight.
I agree, she’d had a spectacular distance running career already. I hate when someone inaccurately describes an athlete as a “former nobody” after an unbelievable performance (a good example would be some posters saying Sedjati “came out of nowhere” this year). It reeks of someone who’s not actually following running closely at all, at least not foreign names like Chepng’etich or Djamel Sedjati.
That said…the fact that she was already one of the fastest half/marathoners in history doesn’t really make blowing her previous performances to smithereens more believable. I strongly suspect that she (and Sedjati, btw) are doping.
The Burfoot article wasn’t great. He absolutely should have leaned into the Rosa management aspect like another poster mentioned. The “I knew about Rosie Ruiz so trust me on this” line was especially tenuous. Generally, it was going to be difficult for a guy like Amby Burfoot to not come off a little like a bitter boomer who just had his old marathon PR (2:14:29) crushed by a woman, and he didn’t pass that test IMO. Respect to him for speaking his mind on the matter, though.
When you look at Ambys credentials you'll see a guy with a progression that is out of this world. He had zero accomplishments in high school or college. Ran over 30 marathons averaging 2:31. Won the Boston marathon in 2:22, the year that nobody showed up. His 2:14 at Fukuoka ranks more unbelievable than if Chepngetich would have run 2:05. Amby, who works at Runner's World, and knows the definition of libel and defamation, has no evidence that Chepngetich is dirty, but he says it anyway.
Amby Burfoot, you owe Chepngetich a formal apology. You are a misogynist and a disgusting pig.
Apologize now!
But of course you do NOT know the definition of libel and defamation. Abby’s piece was an opinion piece. He admitted he has no evidence. He offered his opinion.
I agree, she’d had a spectacular distance running career already. I hate when someone inaccurately describes an athlete as a “former nobody” after an unbelievable performance (a good example would be some posters saying Sedjati “came out of nowhere” this year). It reeks of someone who’s not actually following running closely at all, at least not foreign names like Chepng’etich or Djamel Sedjati.
That said…the fact that she was already one of the fastest half/marathoners in history doesn’t really make blowing her previous performances to smithereens more believable. I strongly suspect that she (and Sedjati, btw) are doping.
The Burfoot article wasn’t great. He absolutely should have leaned into the Rosa management aspect like another poster mentioned. The “I knew about Rosie Ruiz so trust me on this” line was especially tenuous. Generally, it was going to be difficult for a guy like Amby Burfoot to not come off a little like a bitter boomer who just had his old marathon PR (2:14:29) crushed by a woman, and he didn’t pass that test IMO. Respect to him for speaking his mind on the matter, though.
I agree with this, but Sedjati we know they raided his and his coaches’ rooms. Clearly there’s some outright suspicions from the anti-doping authorities there. Hard to know where they are at with Chepngetich.
I do disagree with one thing he did write though. He said he’d be shocked by Sisson lopping off a huge chunk in time. I wouldn’t be really. If she ran 2:14 in 2 years after running in real supershoes (not the SuperComp pacer or whatever she ran the AR in) it’d be a huge breakthrough but wouldn’t blow my mind. D’Amato at her age is a different story. For Sisson and others, just wear the fastest shoes possible, please. Go for the time and don’t get scared by it or locked into arbitrary times to beat like ARs when your fitness is good. I think if Monson took on the 5,000 like the marathoners’ approach to it she’d run 14:30 instead of 14:19. But it seems the women target just beating the time over trying to run with some of the top international women.
When you look at Ambys credentials you'll see a guy with a progression that is out of this world. He had zero accomplishments in high school or college. Ran over 30 marathons averaging 2:31. Won the Boston marathon in 2:22, the year that nobody showed up. His 2:14 at Fukuoka ranks more unbelievable than if Chepngetich would have run 2:05. Amby, who works at Runner's World, and knows the definition of libel and defamation, has no evidence that Chepngetich is dirty, but he says it anyway.
Amby Burfoot, you owe Chepngetich a formal apology. You are a misogynist and a disgusting pig.
Apologize now!
You average a guy's times when he was clearly just 'dabbling' in running, including a 3:59. What does that say of you? You don't list his equivalent other distances either
My 1st one without any previous running was 3:30, you want to use those times to maybe argue I took something to make me go sub 2:30 8 years later when I was training seriously??
A bloke over here some years ago now was on the other side of 2:30, close to 2:40 so I said in a joking way, 'shout you lunch if you break my PB', but I thought he was capabale of it with serious training based on his other distances. Anyway, he gave it a few goes, then broke through 2:30, then my PB and subsequently ended with a 2:17 much later.
This is quite different to the progressions of Chepngetich or even Korir prior to their PBs, totally out of wack for the former
Though, I think there is something else currently out there that works to boost performance in a completely different way than traditional anabolics and epo/blood bags. Maybe something more at the mitochondrial level? Something that negates lactic acid buildup? I’m sounding like a tinfoil hat lad now, but something has drastically changed.
Yep, shoes. Ban the shoes and this ridiculous nonsense will stop overnight.
The shoes also aid recovery so 3 marathons a year could become commonplace
When you look at Ambys credentials you'll see a guy with a progression that is out of this world. He had zero accomplishments in high school or college. Ran over 30 marathons averaging 2:31. Won the Boston marathon in 2:22, the year that nobody showed up. His 2:14 at Fukuoka ranks more unbelievable than if Chepngetich would have run 2:05. Amby, who works at Runner's World, and knows the definition of libel and defamation, has no evidence that Chepngetich is dirty, but he says it anyway.
Amby Burfoot, you owe Chepngetich a formal apology. You are a misogynist and a disgusting pig.
Apologize now!
You average a guy's times when he was clearly just 'dabbling' in running, including a 3:59. What does that say of you? You don't list his equivalent other distances either
My 1st one without any previous running was 3:30, you want to use those times to maybe argue I took something to make me go sub 2:30 8 years later when I was training seriously??
I didn't include his 3:59 in his average calculation out of fairness. Amby was not a very good runner when you look at his times.
"Ruth Chepngetich’s epic 2:09:56 world record in the Chicago Marathon on Sunday was unequivocally the greatest marathon performance of all time.
And that makes me queasy. In fact, I’m outraged.
I’m going to try to explain as briefly as possible why I am so troubled by this performance. And I admit that I could be wrong. After all, I have no evidence that Chepngetich cheated, as she has never failed a doping test.
But I don’t think I’m wrong. And I don’t think this is a time to be quiet."
I dont doubt shes doping,but take away her super shoes,her sub 2.10 run becomes maybe a 2.13.Still far too quick,but a bit more believable.......sort of........
Is he really using Keira D'Amato (American record run from completely nowhere), and Emily Sisson (knocked 5 minutes off her PB to run the AR, hasn't come close since) as examples of why (checks this again) someone knocking 5 minutes off their PB is suspect?
Though, I think there is something else currently out there that works to boost performance in a completely different way than traditional anabolics and epo/blood bags. Maybe something more at the mitochondrial level? Something that negates lactic acid buildup? I’m sounding like a tinfoil hat lad now, but something has drastically changed.
No such discovery would be secret. I can’t think of a new drug that was first used in athletes before being available to the masses. Mitochondrial dysfunction is a major contributor to chronic Lyme, long Covid, chronic fatigue syndrome, fibromyalgia…etc.
If that kind of treatment were discovered, it would be a blockbuster, multi-billion dollar drug for pharma. They wouldn’t restrict it secretly to a few runners.
For what it’s worth, I don’t think this record is clean. But whatever drug she may have used is probably just the regular combo athletes always use. Some are just super-responders (see Armstrong, Lance).
This post was edited 40 seconds after it was posted.
I think you have to segment races based on physiology and consider what the differences are between sexes and how that plays into the limiting factors of that event. In distance running, we do see a real decline in % differences between men and women's record as the distance increases.
This ignores PED's of course and assumes that if one record is dirty then all are dirty or if one if clean then they all are clean, and to the same degree (debatable of course).
Also interesting to consider the effects of new shoe technology and if there are certain body types, sizes, weights and mechanics that the shoes give a bigger advantage to then others. I believe there is something to this and we might not fully understand it yet, and may play into the shoe choice of the WR this past weekend.
As it needs to be considered that the opportunities to run a fast marathon in one's career is significantly less then other events, so bigger jumps in time is not necessarily a red flag given the smaller sample size. If someone has only run a few marathon and on different courses and different weather and different pacer situations it makes sense to have a sizeable difference in outcomes. We see phenomenon this in numerous runners.
I think many people are having "time shock" with the breaking of anew barrier and so looking for reasons it isn't so. I too have my healthy skepticism but I want to make sure its based on reality and not emotion, from my research % off the men's record isn't out of line, so I'm not relying on that to fuel the skepticism. Also I somewhat at least discount significant time jumps versus previous performances because of small sample size and different situations/conditions.