In my opinion, Cheruiyot won. Jakobs' head fell across the line first, but Cheruiyot got his full body across the line before Jakob. The lower half of Jakobs' legs were not across the line before Cheruiyot was completely across. Why is it like this in track and field? Is it the first to "touch" the line who wins? Why is it in other sports the ball must completely cross the line before a point is scored? I think this is something that needs serious consideration. And if you would like to see for yourself, skip to 6:41 and play in 0.25x speed. Tell me what you think.
I actually don't care that he won - or that he also loses. My comments are directed at the rubbish spouted here, that exaggerates his successes and excuses his losses. His fans sound like Trump supporters, in their blind devotion to their idol.
Here we agree actually. -As you may know I just care if an athlete wins in a good time (preferably in a pb). But races / racing can be fun to watch… To the “blind” thing -yes, also here I agree. -We need nuances and good reasoning…
There was a race several years ago where Cheruiyot was incredibly guilty of obstruction in the last strait and no one said a word.. Ingebrigsten was going to pass him and Cheruiyot moved out from the RAIL all the way to the line between lanes 2 and 3 trying to block Jacob.
It remains the worst non call I have ever witnessed.
Well Jakob faded, and Timothy nearly won with a convincing kick. So was this dive disrespectful of Tim -I’don’t know. It was only a Diamond league, and I think the former champ all in all was pleased with his race and progress. And maybe even he thought Jakob’s childish dive was fun and startling. And maybe an earned win after all the front running…
Tim also wants to win by all means.
See the DL final 2022 where Tim found it necessary to make a little "Paul Chelimo" to fence off a charging Jakob.
How about you skip to the part where they show the photofinish? Do you want to call into question every sprint race as well?
I've seen the entire video. And does every track race replicate this scenario? No, the winner is typically the first across the line entirely. I am questioning the legitimacy of victory being given to someone who has not yet fully cross the line, over a competitor who has fully crossed the line. Seems illogical to me. I understand the standard and why it is in place, but there is a genuine fallacy in that logic.
There was a race several years ago where Cheruiyot was incredibly guilty of obstruction in the last strait and no one said a word.. Ingebrigsten was going to pass him and Cheruiyot moved out from the RAIL all the way to the line between lanes 2 and 3 trying to block Jacob.
It remains the worst non call I have ever witnessed.
The video of it is in the last page, and it’d be the softest DQ ever. Jakob himself was unbothered by it and gave Tim congratulations right after.
Well Jakob faded, and Timothy nearly won with a convincing kick. So was this dive disrespectful of Tim -I’don’t know. It was only a Diamond league, and I think the former champ all in all was pleased with his race and progress. And maybe even he thought Jakob’s childish dive was fun and startling. And maybe an earned win after all the front running…
"Childish dive" - seriously? It's perfectly acceptable within the rules, and it secured the win for him, which is, for some people at least, the main point of running races.
Disrespectful? What are you even talking about?
I really think a lot of posters are just mad that JI pulled off the victory, and are doing anything they can to diminish it. Next it will be, oh what a gutless fraud - he was all set to get beaten, but then he kept speeding up on the last lap whenever somebody tried to pass him. What a spoilsport!
There was a race several years ago where Cheruiyot was incredibly guilty of obstruction in the last strait and no one said a word.. Ingebrigsten was going to pass him and Cheruiyot moved out from the RAIL all the way to the line between lanes 2 and 3 trying to block Jacob.
It remains the worst non call I have ever witnessed.
I think you refer to the Diamond league final in 2021 (ObjectiveObserver linked to it here, or in a nearby thread). But I think Cheruiyot ran fine -he drifted a little from lane one till two, but I couldn’t see any advantage / disadvantage for anybody here. And Tim might have done it unconsciously… But it’s of course dangerous -Hassan was ran down by Tsegay after doing this last year…
Personally I’m not a big fan of racing strategy, tactics and so on (But there are exceptions). But that’s just me - I want to see what the athletes can do by maximum effort.
Saying all this, there’s one “sin” I think should be ruled different and harder: That is the drifting from lane two on the home straight to lane one done by the leading athlete to block an upcoming competitor with greater speed than him / her self in order to only block and hinder. F.ex Lagat in WC 5000m vs Kipchoge. I think Lagat would have won anyway, but if Kipchoge had had the slightest more speed I think Lagat should have been disqualified / ruled to silver. But I’m not at all sure what the judges would have done. And the same with Filip Ingebrigtsen vs Mechaal in WC 2017 1500m, (maybe a little less severe from Filip’s side, but still..).
"Childish dive" - seriously? It's perfectly acceptable within the rules, and it secured the win for him, which is, for some people at least, the main point of running races.
Disrespectful? What are you even talking about?
I really think a lot of posters are just mad that JI pulled off the victory, and are doing anything they can to diminish it. Next it will be, oh what a gutless fraud - he was all set to get beaten, but then he kept speeding up on the last lap whenever somebody tried to pass him. What a spoilsport!
I think you missed that I’m a Norwegian and a Jakob fan boy… And don’t take me too literally when I wrote “childish” -I meant it in a good way, because I regard Jakob as quite playful, fun and spontaneous! And I very much liked his dive…
Saying that, I just tried to watch it from Tim’s perspective, but as I wrote: I would guess he’s perfectly OK with the situation. -Cheruiyot seems to be a mature chap…
Yes, diving is allowed. But I have some mixed feelings. Well, maybe not so much in this current race, but Jakob has done this before, with good luck. (His brother Henrik has also done it, but with less luck, and was injured right after).
Jakob dived as a fifteen years old in U20 WC 1500m semis, and “stole” a place in the final. -He was clearly behind, and was saved by the dive -but I have to be honest: I had a bad feeling afterwards despite diving being legal. -It just felt like cheating… See link below:
I actually don't care that he won - or that he also loses. My comments are directed at the rubbish spouted here, that exaggerates his successes and excuses his losses. His fans sound like Trump supporters, in their blind devotion to their idol.
Here we agree actually. -As you may know I just care if an athlete wins in a good time (preferably in a pb). But races / racing can be fun to watch… To the “blind” thing -yes, also here I agree. -We need nuances and good reasoning…
Reading like two of his 10 000 posta about every gold or wilver medal Jakob wins reveals that he actually do care, a lot.
I think you missed that I’m a Norwegian and a Jakob fan boy… And don’t take me too literally when I wrote “childish” -I meant it in a good way, because I regard Jakob as quite playful, fun and spontaneous! And I very much liked his dive…
Saying that, I just tried to watch it from Tim’s perspective, but as I wrote: I would guess he’s perfectly OK with the situation. -Cheruiyot seems to be a mature chap…
Yes, diving is allowed. But I have some mixed feelings. Well, maybe not so much in this current race, but Jakob has done this before, with good luck. (His brother Henrik has also done it, but with less luck, and was injured right after).
Jakob dived as a fifteen years old in U20 WC 1500m semis, and “stole” a place in the final. -He was clearly behind, and was saved by the dive -but I have to be honest: I had a bad feeling afterwards despite diving being legal. -It just felt like cheating… See link below:
Well, okay. But I'm still not seeing it - the idea of a dive being unfair or lame in any way, that is. If it was me that got beaten by somebody diving at the line, I think I'd just be like, well, they beat me! It's just like a glorified lean, really. Nobody complains about a runner leaning at the line.
Do you not know the rules of the sport? First part of the torso that crosses the line. In Jakob's case, as is clearly depicted in the race photo, it's his shoulder.
Swimming it is the hand on the wall, nothing else.
In football it is any part of the ball (even just the tip).
In running it is the chest. That is why people throw their chest forward in sprints (lean at the line!).
It is just the rule of our sport. It has to do with impossibility of judging the "most hind part of the runner's body crossing the line" since that would be obscured from the camera (or the judges) by the bodies of the other runners in close races. The first part of the runner (besides the hands), is the easiest thing to see. It literally hits the tape first.
No, it's the first part of the torso to cross the line, not the chest. It's usually the chest, but in Jakob's case, as can be seen in the finish photo, it's his shoulder.
Well, okay. But I'm still not seeing it - the idea of a dive being unfair or lame in any way, that is. If it was me that got beaten by somebody diving at the line, I think I'd just be like, well, they beat me! It's just like a glorified lean, really. Nobody complains about a runner leaning at the line.
I don’t know -if I was the guy who was 1 meter ahead of Jakob in that junior race I would feel that I missed a place in the final because of foul play from the Norwegian. That doesn’t mean that I hold this against Jakob -he just followed his instincts. But do we really expect and want everybody to dive in these situations -surely others than Jakob can start doing the same..?
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