What is the threshold that separates a "hobbyjogger" from a "sub-elite" runner?

Edit Nvm. Misread thread title.

Look at all the slower runners who couldn't even come close to a "sub-elite" time that are categorizing what is "elite" and "sub-elite". Gotta love LetsRun.com...SMH

You have two miles to go when the "doping elite Kenyans" cross the finish line!

I'm going to change everyone's way of thinking here:

The threshold is that a sub-elite gets invited on a national team and compete for titles but you're really an also-ran. Makes some money but your goal is never "winning", its making a lifestyle out of it.

A hobby jogger is pretty much everyone else. Maybe you win some local events. Maybe you go to that 5k nobody wants to do but for some strange reason is offering $500 and you think this could be nice. Maybe you could win if nobody "real" comes. But hobby joggers include everyone who just shows up and runs a 29' 10k once a year to couch to running newbie or travels and has to pay to race.

Then there's the influencer people who do somehow make money off this lifestyle though are categorized as sub-hobby joggers though. They aren't even there to have fun. They're there to make it seem like they're having fun and provide cheap marketing for companies.

I'd say most road running non-pros are always hobby-joggers if they don't have real track ability anymore. Maybe a 2:10-12 marathoner (for men) can be considered sub-elite but anything else is honestly hobby jogger territory if you can't run around 4:00, sub-14, sub-29 on the track.

oh, and idea that the professional/world class runner is elite and anyone else is a hobby jogger is just a bunch of letsrun elitist hogwash. like saying the only decent universities are Ivy League plus five or ten more (Stanford, MIT, etc.).

unless you are getting $$$ to run and compete, it's a hobby and there is nothing wrong with that...running is good for the soul for most.

The threshold does not exist. You are either elite or not. There is no such thing as sub-elite.

That's true, but in the running community it does have a certain meaning.

Usually, a sub-elite runner is a runner who might have the potential to be an elite runner, but isn't there.

Elite - getting payed to run +$

Sub elite - just breaking even 0

Hobby - pays to run -$

150 pounds

Here's my definition:

Not getting and $$ to run = hobby jogger

Getting some $$ to run = sub-elite

Getting enough money to live on (no other job) = elite

Getting free shoes as part of your school sports program doesn't count as getting money. Getting money = a pay check that you hve to report to IRS.

Sounds like the title of your next book! Thank you for the laugh.

slower than me: hobby jogger

faster than me: elite

Great corrections! I didn't realize that the thresholds were so low for BQs (in terms of age grading), but in full disclosure, I don't run marathons (some HMs and 5ks) but mainly 800 to mile races.

The advantage of using age grading criteria is that it's based on an objective standard (the world record vs. my or someone else's opinion), and it has a lot of data to back it up.

I think a couple more categories helps to explore this question: hobbyjogger, sub-elite (competitive), elite, pro

hobbyjogger - do a race but just care about finishing the distance. maybe trains but doesn't want to push the pace. runs to stay in general shape

sub-elite - competitive runner. structured training and has time goals 45, 50 min 10km, sub 2 hr half.

elite - I think this is local to the area you run. I am in Canada and this would be my cutoff times that are set for joining elite in a race and getting water bottle station access.

42.2K – marathon distance
men - 2:49:49
women - 3:21:13
21.1K – half marathon distance
Men - 1:18:58
Women - 1:33:56

pro - good enough to be sponsored, realistic chance to make Olympic or global championship

For me, it’s whether or not an athlete will put their body on the line for the time.

Are they prepared to make a gutsy run where their body could be hurt?

For example, will they be prepared to take an experimental gene therapy linked to blood clots and then suffer bilateral pulmonary embolisms not long afterwards and then lamely attempt to pretend they weren’t linked by banning discussion of it on your running forum?

Let’s hope it’s BS. 190 miles a week and only got down to 13:20? That’s a lot of time spent training to not even be relevant

Potential is another overused term with no real meaning