Jeff Nelson: How good was he?

dasf wrote:

the conversion chart i looked at equates an 8:36 2 mile to a 13:58 5k.

I think that 13:48 might be a closer estimate. One way or another, a 13:37 5k is definitely superior to an 8:36 2-mile.

Could you explain this to me, then, cause I don't think its worth that at all. Definately not! Why then his best at 8:03.6 for the 3000? Why am I now finding other runners ...such as Ritz, what best 8:43 3200 meters? then hits what about 13:44 on his attempt. Tell me one way or another cause I am not SEEING ANYWAY. The better question would be what would have, could have, should have, NELSON run the 5000 in? Nelson was primed for a little longer race. Did Rupp....ah never mind as usual its like arguing with people from another planet.

I think to break 13:40 you have to be in 7:56 to 7:59 3k shape minimally. I'm just going on personal experience. Therefore I expect had Nelson gotten into a solid 5000 with better competitors I would not have been surprised if he could have gone 13:37-43. He didn't and Ritz and Rupp didn't get really close to his 3k/2 mile efforts.

I agree that the 13:37 seems better than an 8:36 2 mile, especially considering how unusual breaking 14:10 is for high schoolers. I remember many years when 14:30 would be the top time. Only Pre, Lindgren, Virgin, Rupp, Ritz, and Zishka have even gone under 14:00.

BurbankTom wrote:

I still have a video of the race, I will have to dig it out and see if I can tell who is in the race. I can remember Steve Ortiz as the winner.

Regarding the Pepsi Invite:

I actually roomed with Ortiz the following year. I recall Ortiz finished just ahead of Nelson in 2nd. I remember he told me that he wasnt about to let a hign schooler beat him and he was barely able to hold him off!

I am sorry, but I think sometimes the conversion charts are flawed for HS 2M and 5K.

The 2M really bears little resemblence to the 5K, for HS kids with endurance developed way above leg speed (Ritz), or for kids with natural speed but lack of distance training for a 5K (Webb).

It apples to oranges for one, plus I think the conversion chart on these events, for comparable performance levels, is flat wrong IMHO.

Ignore the charts. A 13:37.91 5k is 8:46.5 per 2 mile. There is no doubting the fact that had Rupp run the 2 mile that day, he would have beaten Nelson\'s record (unless his 4:01 mile speed had magically disappeared). Not only that, but Lindgren could have set a record faster than Nelson\'s the day he ran an 8:40.0 2 mile on a 160y indoor track! However, Nelson shouldn\'t be judged just on that one time. Look at how he dominated his competition his senior year, in a very very strong year for California. I don\'t think, for their respective times, Rupp was as good as Nelson was, but his 2 mile record is going down as soon as somebody really fast (ex. Webb, Rupp) decides to go for it. The dominating force he was his senior year, however, won\'t.

It'll be interesting to see what Craig Forys does. I know there have been several Juniors that have broken 9, but he just did indoors & has also been running very well on DMR legs indoor (Two 4:05 splits). Hopefully he didn't already peak. If he somehow breaks 4 before HS is done, it'd be cool to see him start taking serious cracks at the 2-mile records. He still has a ways to go though. We'll see what happens this outdoor first.

I think that was Ortiz and Larsen's first year at UCLA and they ended up developing a really good distance program. I bet Nelson would have done pretty well in that program and been a lot more comfortable closer to home. Oh well, we'll never know. It sounds like Jeff has moved on and has dealt with his whole situation pretty well.

"Old runners nver die, they just finish in the back of the pack... (219th)

I suppose the link would help...

Another thing about Burbank back in those days we were all influenced by Mark Covert who was running 20 a day, 7 days a week. and 365 days a year. Mark is at almost 38 years now without missing a day.

I also truely believe Jeff would have been better at 5000 than he was at 2 miles. He didn't have great mile speed, but was incredibly strong. There just wasn't really the opportunity to run a 5k for high school back then. Even running 3 miles in XC was relatively new

Jeff is still around in the CA. area and comes out to run with the SCV runners from time to time. He is a very nice guy who is willing to talk openly about his past. He is very positive about his past and the choices he made. He has a great wife and kids who run with him most days. Its nice to see him still running (very fast for his age)

Your dead wrong..don't understand you at all. The other poster was right about the sub 8:00 to hit Nelsons time. But whatever, this argument is getting old, Rupp" ran 8:03.6 Record blasting all he had last 130 meters to that time. The 2:18 or so meters left, he had to go 32 sec and change...not going to happen that day or any day, back then. Webb took two major shots at the two mile...he hit what 8:45? Whatever I give up, Rupp's times are monstrous but the highschool guys are hard to figure. I know a couple young guys in USA came over from another country...16 years old, they say, they are flying. I like Rupp hope he starts coming on again were going to need him asap in the US. White flag I give up :( I'm taking my marbles and going home!

an interesting observation: during the same year that jeff ran his 8:36 2-mile there was an 18-year-old british chap by the name of steve binns (went to providence) who broke the 5k world junior record when he ran 13:27...he also ran a 2-mile best of 8:28. i'm not sure if that was also a record for juniors but i thought it was interesting to bring up as a parallel of sorts...do i have conclusion with these two numbers? well, not really, except to say that if you add 10 seconds to each time, you get the approximate times of both rupp's and nelson's best. i'm sure i'm over-simplifying it. just thought it was interesting.

jeff nelson, steve binns, terry thornton etc. could have been, should have been, would have been, but did'nt.

The main advantage Nelson's record has for longevity is there are simply rare occasions for a high schooler to run a 2 mile race in open competition when they are at there peak fitness. The Pre meet has a 2 mile but rarely.

I believe the Pepsi meet and pehaps the old Jenner meet used to always run one and the promoter, Al Franken, always loved to bring in a top notch high schooler and let them run against the big boys. Problem is the outdoor meets were in May and very early June when the high schoolers in most states were committed to their state championship tournament or the post season hs meets. A couple years after Nelson Eric Reynolds ran an 8:43 in the same situation.

Nelson's record is incredibly formidable but where would a high schooler run a 2 miler in an open situation to get the same advantage he had?

Therefore I don't think its going to be broken until the next Rupp or Ritz comes back around and there is a major focus on all fronts to set this up.

on the other hand, they still can, if they get back into it, some age records can still fall.

However, Again 10 seconds does not get it done.

70\\\\\\\\\ wrote:

Could you explain this to me, ... Why then his best at 8:03.6 for the 3000?

Okay Einstein, try to concentrate for this one, because it's really complicated: Rupp's 13:37 is way, way better than his 8:03. Just because the same person ran two different races doesn't mean they are exactly the same quality of race.

For example, once I ran a 3:43 1500. A week later, I ran 3:46. That doesn't mean that 3:43 and 3:46 are equivalent performances. It means I ran faster once, and slower another time.

That's what Rupp did. He ran an excellent race (13:37). And a very good race (8:03). Many people think 8:03 is not as impressive as an 8:36 2-mile, but 13:37 is more impressive than an 8:36 2-mile. Is it true? Who knows. But shut up about the 8:03 already.