Alysia Montaño getting BRONZE medal from London 2012

Who will get Rupp's marathon medal?

....

So Pamela Jelimo did win back to back Gold 🥇. Because Caster should have been banned as well; therefore, results should have been:

2011 Women's 800m

1.Pamela Jelimo (Ken)

2. Aylussa Montano (USA)

To the poster staying Jelimo was a man. She definitely was a female, although not very attractive to some but still a talented female athlete.

I've seen her d.n.f.

Not everyone believes that.

It is up to you to present solid evidence. How do you randomly get to pick which woman with small breasts and sub-13% body fat is a secret man? Make-up? Ribbon in her hair?

Link to the steroidal profiles being put together but not used for banning? I'm aware of the hematological profiles prior to 2009. If EPO use was suspected they were used for specifically target testing & nothing else (I'm familiar with profile on Ramzi - the IAAF released that data - though I believe against WADA's recommendation at the time).

Are you sure you're not talking about the T/E ratio test that's been around for quite awhile? Every sample is tested for the T/E ratio. For example, The normal for men is 1:1 to 2:1 with outliers at 3:1. Anything that breaches 4:1 is sent in for ths carbon ratio test (CIR) which is the only test that can distinguish between synthetic plant-based testosterone vs naturally occurring cholesterol-based testosterone. I don't know off hand what the ratio is for women (presumably lower) but WADA would use the same procedure with CIR once the women's established T/E ratio is breached

One interesting aspect is how these two Russian 800m runners managed to escape testing positive on re-testing of their samples. In the games, their teammate, Zaripova, won the steeplechase in dominate fashion. Her IC test was negative but a later re-test showed positive for Turinbol - the old workhorse anabolic steroid that the East Germans used in their state-sponsored doping program from the 70s & 80s. Plus Zaripova had hematological anomalies in her ABP from that race. All this plus her ABP chart is available in her CAS hearing.

Alaysia should get her medal and some sort of financial compensation for it in Paris. She's asking for LA so maybe that's as long as it takes, but she should get something for her trouble.

Here's a blast from the past. Features the late Tori Bowie, Shalane, and yes, Alaysia. The pain in her voice describing what it felt to run up against doped up athletes is palpable (I believe it starts at 14:30).

Now I'm going to say something unpopular...

I think it's important to remember motivations for doping. While the running world is thrashing this Russian athlete and supporting Alaysia, be reminded that no one is wondering about her mental health. No one realy even knows her name, or her backstory. No one cares.

But Russians live under the thumb of Putin, and they have fewer choices than Americans. Who knows what they endured, or what led them down that path. Should she be banned? YES. But I would like you all to remember that this is how dopers are treated when they are NOT American white athletes.

American white athletes like Shelby Houlihan were given empathy by the media and many in the running community despite likely having far more freedom of choice and independence. A choice for a privileged american athlete to dope will always be profoundly more selfish than an athlete in a dictatorship nation.

Russia should be barred from all international competitions through the end of the century. They've proven time and time again they are not capable of sitting at the big kids table.

No, Jelimo didn’t give birth. Jelimo does have kids, but so does Caster Semenya. But there is literally ZERO evidence that Jelimo was ever pregnant or gave birth.

Jelimo won a Olympic gold medal and a million dollars, which made her a huge celebrity in a country where track is a major sport. She was the equivalent of Serena Williams and Simone Biles. People who are that famous get noticed when they are pregnant, and it's talked about in the news. And when they give birth there are news reports and birth announcements by the media, even if the celebrity doesnt make an announcement themself. But none of that exists for even one of Jelimo's kids. Why? Because Jelimo never gave birth.

And the reason Jelimo never gave birth is because Jelimo is DSD, same as Semenya.

The Russian gov't abuses athletes some of them as young as 14 (see 2022 Winter Olympics). I am not saying that these athletes were victims of anything. But the dichotomy between their dismissal as cheaters and the excuses we made for Shelby Houlihan is stark. I would encourage people to consider that these Russians are more deserving than Shelby of empathy, given their circumstances.

Thought experiment: In an Olympic Final, if runner A punches runner B to the ground resulting in a disqualification after the race for runner A, but runner A ends up finishing 1st, then the Gold medal should be vacated?

Oh, you were there, were you?

Semenya was playing by the rules that were in place at the time. Her condition is no fault of her own. She gets to keep the gold.

I said she has the gold "in my book." I understand the olympic rulebook was different. However in my book, biological males were never valid competitors in women's races.

Were you?

She is extremely secretive about her personal life.

Do you believe you have given evidence? I would love to see you try to make arguments in traffic court to beat a citation.

I wasn't. And that's why I don't speculate.

And why wouldn't she be extremely secretive about her personal life, when people on the internet want to discuss it?

Good on her.

Why do you believe Jelimo is DSD / XY? Genuinely curious. Is there any evidence to support this? I can easily believe she didn't give birth, but that doesn't mean she's XY.

How is this going to play out when people are getting paid for medals?