Is Nico Young a better runner than Henry Rono?

What do you mean my "argument". The bulk of my post, including the part you quoted, is suggesting a system to evaluate this type of question. The bottom part of the post then applies this system to several cases, not trying to be controversial, but giving my opinions in places to show how the question variants differ.

It's true that, of the four questions, (3) is the hardest to answer. If you're saying that, you're right. I would certainly not claim that a modern Rono could run 12:20 or that Ronaldo could run 11:55. Both are ridiculous, the latter more so by several orders of magnitude.

Long story short, just state your assumptions when comparing across. Even better, use multiple sets of assumptions and explain where they differ. Most of the time, these arguments come down to different assumptions and/or bad faith.

You don't understand that your argument is solely based on an unfounded belief that Henry Rono is the equivalent of Jesus. Apparently, a shoe and a marginally faster track surface will make him 30+ seconds better at the 10k.

Yes, Nico has better shoes, a better track, and better training. That's why he's so much better...

Maybe Henry Rono might've run 12:20 if he was competing in the NCAA today, but guess what... HE'S NOT. You're arguing a hypothetical situation to me, it's no different than me arguing that LeBron would break 12:00 flat because he has more aura than Henry Rono.

Remember now, LeBron is faster than your favorite runner. If you give LeBron wave lights, super shoes, and proper training, he'd win everything. I know this because he has more aura than your favorite runner.

Shoes alone are worth 30+. Average times for top 100 US athletes for 10000m post shoes compared to previous 10 years starting with 2019 and going to 2009 is 30 seconds for the men and 40 seconds for women. The last 4 years for US men’s 10000m is at least 30 seconds faster than and pre-Covid year. Times improved 30 seconds in one year and have only gotten better.

Hats off to any collegiate/pro runner who shows up to their next 10000m without cheat shoes.

He slept with 20,000 women?

you can't compare different eras. the mindset alone is different, people look at times differently and they race and run times that used to be considered unrealistic.

Bill Rodgers never broke 2:09, but he just won. Not saying he would run 2:01, but he would run much faster times with the mindset of today and the shoes and recovery methods etc. I'm from New England, Colin Bennie has a faster marathon PR than Bill Rodgers, no offense to Colin, but he couldn't hold bill's jock.

look at all the HS kids running times that were considered legendary ten years ago, many more sub 4's, sub 4:40 girls. Shoes have changed the game, recovery methods have changed the game, grey area supplements have changed the game.

You can't just look at the times. Rono was an absolute beast, he could change gears and run crazy times on a whim. He did it on beer and hills, not very suffisticated, just plain otherworldly talent.

And I agree, let's see some modern day top level runner show up to a championship race in regular old racing shoes. How bout Nico coming to the trials in some adidas saturns.

This is an interesting point, but this is one of the reasons I brought up the different question variants. Your argument sounds like question (2), comparing tracks in 1952 to today.

Let me ask you this, then. Suppose one month before the Helsinki Olympics Zatopek is sucked into a wormhole and transported to the present day. He is quickly given a pair of supershoes and entered in "The Ten", which is also a month away. During that time, Zatopek trains in his normal way, but gets used to the new shoes and tracks, and learns about modern race strategy.

When the race comes around, Zatopek competes to the best of his ability. What time does he run?

I’m not sure what point you are trying to make.

I think that the assumption that everyone is making is that you cannot compare times across generations. Which is completely fair.

So throw out times and compare them based on their accomplishments. If you do that you will see that Rono is a much better runner.

Rono - 10 NCAA record, 4 world records. 3 NCAA cross country titles

Nico Young - 2 NCAA records, 0 world records, 0 NCAA cross country titles

Rono still has the fastest NCAA Cross Country time ever.

It's not even close.

FYI, 59 years after he ran them, Jim Ryun still has 2 of the 4 fastest HS miles ever, and 3 of the top 10. He's also still the American under-20 record holder for the mile and 3000 (equivalent, according to track and field news, based on his then- American record at 2 miles), and second on the same list for 800 meters, all from the following year. That doesn't impress you at least a little bit?

Rono just gets a speed boost because he was running in the 70s. However, his pr is 30 seconds slower than Nico's. So, instead of admitting that Nico is better you're writing fanfiction. "Actually if Henry Rono was teleported to modern day, he would run 12:20 because of modern training, super shoes, etc."

I can do the same thing bro, I can write fanfiction. I believe that LeBron would easily destroy Henry Rono in any racing distance, give LeBron modern training, super shoes, etc. and he would destroy Rono. He has more aura than Rono, therefore he's much better.

Your argument has no more validity than mine, it's based on an imaginary scenario.

Yes context matters, but Young is not a developing young runner, he looks like he's a 27 years old grown man.. If you want to compare me to Rono, that's fair, because when I was 22 I didn't look a day over my 17th birthday.

Put Young in a pair of Nike Vainqueurs then come back to me. Those were the worst spikes ever made. Thats what Henry wore. When Rono joined the Kenyan Army he was given his first pair of shoes -- not running shoes, they were the first real shoes he ever owned, so Vainqueurs must have been heavenly, relatively speaking.

Back in day I told Geoff Hollister that he needs to take adidas spiders and sew a swoosh on them. He said that Vainqueurs worked fine for Henry. My response was that Henry is not human, then held out a pair of Vainqueurs, and bent them. "See that, the human foot doesn't bend there does it?"

The real difference between the two is that Young is a programmed automaton. Rono was pure exuberance.Bliss in motion.. To watch him run was an experience of joy that mesmerized everyone. To this day I've never seen a runner like him. Is that the experience that Young gives you? They are completely different runners in different eras.

Rono in 2024 or Young in 1978? I think you know the answer.

There's your context.

I’m not writing any fan fiction - you must be confusing me with someone else.

It’s a statistical reality that technology improvements has resulted in faster times. That’s not an argument about “auras”. It’s not imaginary, either.

You are writing fan fiction - Your argument assumes Nico Young would run his current times if he was transported to the 70's and had to run under those conditions. You know full well he wouldn't get anywhere close to his current times.

What do you think Young would have run had he competed in the 70'S?

Take a couple of runners some here have heard of:

Runner A “only” ran 3:35.6 BUT he was an Olympic champion and set 3 world records. I believe he was undefeated with a record of 36-0 in the mile.

Runner B ran 3:35.21 and was an NCAA champion and a US champion.

So we know for sure that Runner B was better correct? Runner B is Gabe Jennings. Runner A is Herb Elliott.

Don't know what time he runs but it's a hell of a lot faster than 28.54

You literally just typed out a hypothetical scenario where Nico gets teleported to the 70s and claimed I (not you) wrote fanfiction...

I don't know what Nico would run in the 1970s bro, that's the entire point bro... I'm not trying to argue that Nico has super powers and can do whatever I want him to do (writing fanfiction).

What I do know is that Nico has a faster PR in everything (😂 steeplechase is not real 😂). Did you know Nico closed his NCAA 3k-5k faster than Rono's mile PR?

~ 28:02; solo and no wave lights .. he’s go better with the group from the other night and the lights.

Joshua Cheptegei solos a poorly paced 26:49 from the front in a tactical championship race in 2017 (with old spikes), three years later he sets the 26:11 WR with new spikes, drafting off of pacers and wavelights. Jacob Kiplimo runs 26:33 pre super spikes, you think he can run sub 26 now since apparently they are worth 30+ seconds in the 10k?