Jerry is a great coach. This argument that he or she only has talented athletes is stupid and just a cry for help with insecure or jealous coaches.
My guess is Jerry is spread to thin between Bowerman and Oregon. He has to give up one if he wants his athletes to benefit. It’s really that simple. To say Jerry is not a great coach is just dumb. He just can’t do two major jobs at the same time.
Jerry is not a great coach. That's it. Just another guy, lucky that Nike handed him the bowerman group to coach, anyone would look good with them.
So you're just removing Wisconsin from his resume? Multiple national titles, multiple national records with people he brought to bowerman. Dumbest statement I've seen in awhile.
What? Wisconsin was pretty damn good when he took over, great history of success long before jerry.
Jerry is a great coach. This argument that he or she only has talented athletes is stupid and just a cry for help with insecure or jealous coaches.
My guess is Jerry is spread to thin between Bowerman and Oregon. He has to give up one if he wants his athletes to benefit. It’s really that simple. To say Jerry is not a great coach is just dumb. He just can’t do two major jobs at the same time.
Jerry has obviously has had a lot of success in the past. But he deserves scrutiny for how poorly he's doing at Oregon (and at Bowerman these days), and he deserves scrutiny for how little he races many of the most talented athletes in the country.
He may have done a great job at Bowerman for many years, but he's objectively terrible for the sport. His athletes race less frequently than any training group that I am aware of. BYU, NAU, Ok State, OAC, Kenyans, Ethiopians, the Norwegians--they all manage to work on their base fitness while still racing. I mean, racing is the point of the sport. There's no reason that Jerry has to hide his athletes under rocks for two years before he lets them race, and even then, race them less often than anyone else.
I view him as a dying breed of guru coaches who thinks that success depends on not communicating openly with the press, not racing athletes much, preventing open discussion of training, and just generally having an adversarial relationship with the worldwide running community.
I mean, I don't have any personal bone to pick with Jerry. I'm totally ambivalent about whether Oregon is good or not. I'm just a fan of the sport who would love to see people like Simeon Birnbaum run a race once in a while.
Jerry's had a great coaching career. But he sucks for the sport. And I think that's why people are eager to cheer when he fails.
Jerry is a great coach. This argument that he or she only has talented athletes is stupid and just a cry for help with insecure or jealous coaches.
My guess is Jerry is spread to thin between Bowerman and Oregon. He has to give up one if he wants his athletes to benefit. It’s really that simple. To say Jerry is not a great coach is just dumb. He just can’t do two major jobs at the same time.
Jerry has obviously has had a lot of success in the past. But he deserves scrutiny for how poorly he's doing at Oregon (and at Bowerman these days), and he deserves scrutiny for how little he races many of the most talented athletes in the country.
He may have done a great job at Bowerman for many years, but he's objectively terrible for the sport. His athletes race less frequently than any training group that I am aware of. BYU, NAU, Ok State, OAC, Kenyans, Ethiopians, the Norwegians--they all manage to work on their base fitness while still racing. I mean, racing is the point of the sport. There's no reason that Jerry has to hide his athletes under rocks for two years before he lets them race, and even then, race them less often than anyone else.
I view him as a dying breed of guru coaches who thinks that success depends on not communicating openly with the press, not racing athletes much, preventing open discussion of training, and just generally having an adversarial relationship with the worldwide running community.
I mean, I don't have any personal bone to pick with Jerry. I'm totally ambivalent about whether Oregon is good or not. I'm just a fan of the sport who would love to see people like Simeon Birnbaum run a race once in a while.
Jerry's had a great coaching career. But he sucks for the sport. And I think that's why people are eager to cheer when he fails.
I’ll tell you what’s bad for the sport…it’s using chat boards to post trash about young men and women, coaches and or colleges based on bias, opinion and half truths that you wouldn’t ordinarily say IF you weren’t posting anonymously.
Frosh at the level of Oregon's top frosh often do not redshirt. If they compete, as Burns did several times in blowing his redshirt in xc, they usually do better than high school. But Jerry's roster is not all true freshmen. He's got multiple redshirt freshmen--eligible to compete in their sophomore year now, and he's getting very little from them. He's got multiple soph eligibility, junior, and senior guys. The team is big; few compete; none compete at the top level. It was expected Jerry would rarely race guys. It was not expected that the guys he raced would so underperform relative to their hs performances and the competition. Jerry's top 3k freshman is 14th among freshmen indoors, .6 ahead of Stanford's third best freshman. In the mile, there are 12 frosh in the top 100, none from Oregon. In the 5000m, Oregon has the 11th best frosh in the top 100, a redshirt freshman. As we've seen, beyond Harding, Erickson, and Cook, there's not much production from Oregon from 800m to 5000m.
when you had a team that was dominant and they can't even make NCAAs, something is off, and since players don't normally flee dominant teams immediately, the coach is the more likely candidate.
arguing they redshirted people is not so much a quality argument -- we don't know, do we -- as advocating punting analysis a year. i made every travel roster and after a couple games started for my soccer team as a frosh so i might even argue that redshirting implies the contrary of what you suggest. if they were that awesome a good coach promotes them over the upperclassmen. now, i once had a HS coach who kvetched if he should elevate a kid off JV, who if memory serves scored 5 goals in playoffs once he did it, won a select national championship, was all-state as a senior, and all-american in college. i think he only moved up when a guy who never played college tore up his knee at the end of the regular season.
comparing that coach to the rival school who would cut a senior off varsity taught me how winners operate.
now, the frosh could be as good as you say, at worst i am saying you're making an assumption. and my riposte would be if they are that good they could have fixed the drought, they should have been running as frosh, under my talent over loyalty theory. i expected my school to try to recruit my replacement every year -- i then outplayed or outran them.
Jerry has obviously has had a lot of success in the past. But he deserves scrutiny for how poorly he's doing at Oregon (and at Bowerman these days), and he deserves scrutiny for how little he races many of the most talented athletes in the country.
He may have done a great job at Bowerman for many years, but he's objectively terrible for the sport. His athletes race less frequently than any training group that I am aware of. BYU, NAU, Ok State, OAC, Kenyans, Ethiopians, the Norwegians--they all manage to work on their base fitness while still racing. I mean, racing is the point of the sport. There's no reason that Jerry has to hide his athletes under rocks for two years before he lets them race, and even then, race them less often than anyone else.
I view him as a dying breed of guru coaches who thinks that success depends on not communicating openly with the press, not racing athletes much, preventing open discussion of training, and just generally having an adversarial relationship with the worldwide running community.
I mean, I don't have any personal bone to pick with Jerry. I'm totally ambivalent about whether Oregon is good or not. I'm just a fan of the sport who would love to see people like Simeon Birnbaum run a race once in a while.
Jerry's had a great coaching career. But he sucks for the sport. And I think that's why people are eager to cheer when he fails.
I’ll tell you what’s bad for the sport…it’s using chat boards to post trash about young men and women, coaches and or colleges based on bias, opinion and half truths that you wouldn’t ordinarily say IF you weren’t posting anonymously.
1) This is an insane thing to disagree with 2) you're saying this anonymously as well
Some random thoughts about Schumacher and the program. I agree with a few posters about Jerry being a great coach. I remember his work at Wisconsin. He was top drawer there & that's what attracted Nike for the Bowerman position. I think he's still feeling his way through the management of the program, how to divvy up scholarships, finding the right balance between distance, sprints, weights, jumps, etc. This indoor season has been tough sledding for distance. There's been an enormous jump in performances and since his men's are heavily weighted to frosh and sophs I sense that he made a conscious decision, training wise, to pull the reins in instead of trying to get them to qualify against upperclassmen and in so doing affect their long term maturation. Individually there are some signs of improvement. For example, Benjamin Balaczs as a redshirt last year was running in the low 9s in the steeple. At the end of the year he dropped to 8:49. I expect him to get into the 8:30s outdoors. That may not do that much nationally, but that would be nice progress for a redshirt freshman. I also expect others to show real progress outdoors.
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