You should change your username to 'misogynist old man'. Disgraceful the way you dismiss girls and women again and again on here. You are in no way wise. You can't even imagine the female experience, old sexist man.
Wow, so much vitriol. My opinions on this topic are well informed by the women my in my life. In my neck of the woods, you are the misogynist. Full stop.
Typical LRC parent, “Somebody trip that f’in boy. Yeah, get off the course, BOY!! I’d tackle him if I was fast enough to catch him!! My daughter was entitled to silver! She has been robbed of her dignity, her identity as a runner….as a human. She may not even be able to walk on at Maine Community College now that she got bronze instead of silver!! Daughter, you should be furious at what’s been done to you, and clearly there was no point in trying any longer when this sort of thing is allowed in the sport. Why don’t you just quit, the sport is overrun with trans athletes making a mockery of our values.”
Wise Old Parent, “Soren ran within the rules and has every right to run in the race. Her or their presence in the race did not interfere with your ability to do your very best and put all of your hard work and training to the test. Congratulations on getting bronze. You ran a great race and I’m proud of you. The difference between silver and bronze or 10th or 100th is not how you validate yourself or validate the work you did this season. If it is you are in for a lot of disappointment going forward in this sport. Who knows, if you train wisely this summer you might be able to break 19:00 on this course someday.“
I get what you’re saying- I had a kid at the same college town you do. But then what is your view on why we should even have a girls category?
Seems like If we follow your view to a conclusion- we don’t need sports split into boys and girls categories. Just have one category for running. Everybody should be proud of their best effort and improvement.
or maybe you are saying, this is such a rare situation, just deal with it, and the rights of the transgender person to run in the girls race is more important than a fair race. So retain the girls category, but just accept that some girls who were born male are going to be really fast, but it is worth it because feeling included is most important and what place your daughter gets is not important.
Or are you saying, it is fair- some girls are tall, some are fast twitch, some have great hand eye coordination, some have more T, and some were born as biological boys, it’s just different types of advantages.
Funny, actually you are on the wrong side of the history, in the twentieth century to be precise, when WA abandoned sex verification for category eligibility.
I hope you are a troll - if so 10/10 because it got me riled up.
Your portrayal of the “Typical LRC Parent” is an obvious straw man. Has anybody in this thread suggested violence towards the trans person who won the race? No. Nobody has said anything about 2nd place being “robbed of her dignity”. This was all made up by you, a mentally ill person.
Why shouldn’t athletes derive validation from their finishing place in a cross country race? The higher up you finish in a race, the better your performance. Achieving a high performance level in any sport is admirable and something to be proud of. It is even more admirable when an athlete improves their performance as measured by finishing higher up in the race from year to year.
For some people, 20:30 may actually require some work to achieve - not every girl who comes out for cross country walks around in sub 20 5k shape.
All in all, you are a deranged individual with an idiotic perspective on the world. Women and girls should be allowed to compete against women and girls.
You are delusional if you don’t think these boards are full of hate for these athletes. I was at the meets in the CIF over the last few years when trans athletes were competing and these are direct quotes from hecklers. So much hate directed at minors competing within the rules. It was despicable and also endorsed by many LRC posters in previous threads.
This post was edited 39 seconds after it was posted.
Wow, so much vitriol. My opinions on this topic are well informed by the women my in my life. In my neck of the woods, you are the misogynist. Full stop.
Typical LRC parent, “Somebody trip that f’in boy. Yeah, get off the course, BOY!! I’d tackle him if I was fast enough to catch him!! My daughter was entitled to silver! She has been robbed of her dignity, her identity as a runner….as a human. She may not even be able to walk on at Maine Community College now that she got bronze instead of silver!! Daughter, you should be furious at what’s been done to you, and clearly there was no point in trying any longer when this sort of thing is allowed in the sport. Why don’t you just quit, the sport is overrun with trans athletes making a mockery of our values.”
Wise Old Parent, “Soren ran within the rules and has every right to run in the race. Her or their presence in the race did not interfere with your ability to do your very best and put all of your hard work and training to the test. Congratulations on getting bronze. You ran a great race and I’m proud of you. The difference between silver and bronze or 10th or 100th is not how you validate yourself or validate the work you did this season. If it is you are in for a lot of disappointment going forward in this sport. Who knows, if you train wisely this summer you might be able to break 19:00 on this course someday.“
I get what you’re saying- I had a kid at the same college town you do. But then what is your view on why we should even have a girls category?
Seems like If we follow your view to a conclusion- we don’t need sports split into boys and girls categories. Just have one category for running. Everybody should be proud of their best effort and improvement.
or maybe you are saying, this is such a rare situation, just deal with it, and the rights of the transgender person to run in the girls race is more important than a fair race. So retain the girls category, but just accept that some girls who were born male are going to be really fast, but it is worth it because feeling included is most important and what place your daughter gets is not important.
Or are you saying, it is fair- some girls are tall, some are fast twitch, some have great hand eye coordination, some have more T, and some were born as biological boys, it’s just different types of advantages.
Level of competition matters in setting the rules of any sport, and creating what’s considered a level playing field varies at different levels of sport. Elite athletes are subjected to PED testing. Do we do this in HS? Why not? The NCAA and WA already have stringent rules in place that address this issue and essentially make it impossible for a trans athlete to meaningfully compete. I think that’s more than adequate to protect the integrity of women’s sports. I consider these endless LRC threads about high school children to be petty, abusive and completely missing the point of scholastic athletics.
I think it's good. People need to stop hating on trans people. Women don't get to monopolize athletics and exclude them any more. If that hurts their feelings, too bad. It's more important for trans people to be included and feel good.
I don't have kids and I'm a male (last time I checked), so I really don't have a vested interest in this argument. What wise old man said was correct. The trans kid was competing within the rules set by some scholastic administrators. If the parents and kids don't like it, they should elect people who see the idiocy of allowing boys to compete against girls. But as of now, they elect progressives who put the biology second and the feelings of some confused boys first. And they keep electing them. There will soon be a Lia Thomas in every sport. It's already happening in cycling.
You are delusional if you don’t think these boards are full of hate for these athletes. I was at the meets in the CIF over the last few years when trans athletes were competing and these are direct quotes from hecklers. So much hate directed at minors competing within the rules. It was despicable and also endorsed by many LRC posters in previous threads.
But you’re the one who regularly uses these boards to make posts that come off to many others as chock full of hate for the female athletes in these cases.
When there are threads about male athletes being allowed to use gender identity claims to compete, and clean up in, girls’ and women’s sports, you regularly respond by expressing sneering contempt, haughty disdain and cold, callous heartlessness towards the female athletes who are being subjected to this new form of sexist injustice.
In your posts, you routinely put down girls and women who object to the blatant unfairness of this new manifestation of male privilege and male supremacy. You depict female people who dare to speak up as sore losers, bad sports, whiners and selfish, exclusionary bigots. In addition to making us out to be meanies, you look down your nose at us and scold us for having views about biology, sports fairness and women's hard-won rights that you deem backwards, uninformed and outdated.
Men who pipe up about the blatant unfairness you slag off as a bunch of "despicable" bullies whose only possible motivation in your view is "hate" and "trans bashing."
You say that since “there’s so much unfairness in the world” already, everyone should just shut up and put up with the new form of blatantly sexist, male supremacist injustice that's now being heaped on girls and women in the Western world in the name of “trans rights.”
What’s more, on these boards, you’ve continually expressed the extremely snobbish view that people from California, where you live, are more enlightened and advanced than people who live elsewhere - and athletically superior too.
For instance, on this thread, you’ve said that the minor-age teenage girl still in HS who complained about being pushed into second place by the male winner is “awfully lucky she’s competing in Maine” because “in the CA southern section she would be running for 100th” place against athletes of her own sex.
To see examples of "hate for these athletes" on LRC, just look at the misogynistic posts you've made on this thread about a minor-age female athlete deprived of fair competition, and a win, by a strapping male teen who has decided to use gender identity claims to race in the sex category where everyone knows he has an unfair advantage:
#8: There’s so much “unfairness” in the world. Is Ms Williams had run in the D3 section races in the north coast or southern sections of CA she would finish dead last or close to it. So, I guess it’s “unfair” that she lost to Soren, but she’s awfully lucky she’s competing in Maine if place in the race is what matters to her most.
#13 Do you really think Ms Williams would have a remote chance of medaling in the CA SS? A few years back my daughter ran 18:01 in her CA regional meet (sectional meet) and she got 3rd. She was deprived of a gold medal simply because of her zip code. Oh the injustice!!
#18 Ms Williams seems to care about medals rather than her performance against herself and doing the best she can regardless of the competition, so she should count herself lucky she lives in Maine regardless if she has to race Soren. I’m sorry you don’t see the absurdity of this controversy, but I sure do.
#19 Ms Williams had to “run for 2nd” in this race. So what? In the CA southern section she would be running for 100th against girls. Would she feel better in that scenario? The real lesson of all this is being missed in the midst of a lot of trans bashing.
This post was edited 8 minutes after it was posted.
But you’re the one who regularly uses these boards to make posts that come off to many others as chock full of hate for the female athletes in these cases.
So what do you think about Luis Rubiales? Do you think that's an important issue that deserves your attention?
Who cares and why is that relevant? In William's race she missed out on a medal place. Whether it is competitive with your daughter's region or not is beside the point.
Girls deserve fair sport, and this young woman has a right to speak out about it. They shouldn't just suck it up because their region is slower overall, that's nutty and a bad message for young women.
Ms Williams seems to care about medals rather than her performance against herself and doing the best she can regardless of the competition, so she should count herself lucky she lives in Maine regardless if she has to race Soren. I’m sorry you don’t see the absurdity of this controversy, but I sure do.
So YOU decide what her value system should be? Really?
The easiest thing would just be to have the transgender athletes run in the womens race but in a "non-binary" category. All it changes is that there is one more award ceremony at the end of the race. It's so simple.
jkjkjjjjlll, I suspect though that you are some 20 something year old guy who has no real history of advocating for female rights and is just inserting himself in the trendy trans conversation just to entertain yourself.
you want to claim you’re arguing and standing up for female rights then why don’t you actually do something that matters and travel overseas and help with human rights abuses in Saudi or clean drinking water and female genital mutilation in Africa?
This is nothing more than a personal attack that does not even discuss the issue. You don't even know this person. Are you ok?
I agree that males should not run in the women's category, but on the other hand I think the whole idea of a women's category is part of the problem. I am a man, and I will never ever be the fastest at any distance. Never, no matter how hard I train. There are some things I might be one of the best at, but running isn't one of them.
So why can't women think this way too? There are things females can be better at than men. Why don't they focus on those things instead of competing in a sport that men are better at? And for that matter, why doesn't our society value and reward people who are good at things women are good at? Maybe that's the real problem. Maybe if society rewarded women for being women, women would stop needing to be as good as men at everything. Women would stop needing to feel like they can "win" doing masculine things.
So YOU get to decide what women should focus on and be good at? What were you thinking when you wrote this?
I hope you are a troll - if so 10/10 because it got me riled up.
Your portrayal of the “Typical LRC Parent” is an obvious straw man. Has anybody in this thread suggested violence towards the trans person who won the race? No. Nobody has said anything about 2nd place being “robbed of her dignity”. This was all made up by you, a mentally ill person.
Why shouldn’t athletes derive validation from their finishing place in a cross country race? The higher up you finish in a race, the better your performance. Achieving a high performance level in any sport is admirable and something to be proud of. It is even more admirable when an athlete improves their performance as measured by finishing higher up in the race from year to year.
For some people, 20:30 may actually require some work to achieve - not every girl who comes out for cross country walks around in sub 20 5k shape.
All in all, you are a deranged individual with an idiotic perspective on the world. Women and girls should be allowed to compete against women and girls.
You are delusional if you don’t think these boards are full of hate for these athletes. I was at the meets in the CIF over the last few years when trans athletes were competing and these are direct quotes from hecklers. So much hate directed at minors competing within the rules. It was despicable and also endorsed by many LRC posters in previous threads.
I see this move by trans activists all the time. Anyone who opposes males competing in female spaces is immediately labeled as hateful.
It's a despicable move. Stop it. There are tangible reasons that don't involve hate to keep male and female completions(and locker rooms) separate.
In addition to making us out to be meanies, you look down your nose at us and scold us for having views about biology, sports fairness and women's hard-won rights that you deem backwards, uninformed and outdated.
But your views are backwards, uninformed, and outdated.
In addition to making us out to be meanies, you look down your nose at us and scold us for having views about biology, sports fairness and women's hard-won rights that you deem backwards, uninformed and outdated.
But your views are backwards, uninformed, and outdated.
Hate to break it to you, but far from being 'outdated', runragged has consistently been ahead of the curve when it comes to public opinion on this matter. She was calling out the issue of males participating in female sports when most people were far too scared or indoctrinated to talk freely about it. Everyone can see as clear as day that the tide has turned for most sporting bodies and it is actively turning in others. Even those sporting bodies who allow transgender participation in the opposite sex category do so as an appeasing fudge, with conditions of entry that are basically designed not to be met. Those clinging to the idea that males are destined to be able to freely compete against females based on their completely subjective 'inner gender souls' are the ones who are now looking very 'outdated'.
So you've gone from saying that her POV was 'backwards' and 'outdated' to saying that her stance was actually so self-evident that she was very obviously going to be at the cutting edge of the zeitgeist on this matter all along. Quite an impressive 180, I must say.
P.S. noone is stopping transgender people from playing sports. If you restrict a heavyweight boxer from competing against flyweights, they haven't been 'banned' have they?
Nobody is trying to "keep transgender people from playing sports". Rhetoric like this is blatantly dishonest. We're asking for male and female sports to be kept separate. Males identifying as females are welcome to compete with males.
It's ridiculous when a boy who could never be a good runner as a boy suddenly is celebrated as some special, talented athlete simply by switching to the girls category.
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