Though honestly, Ngeny doesn't appear to be a real good 800 runner either
Honestly...at this point you should have ceased posting about the subject cuz you ain't no nuttin' bout Noah.
i know that he never ran anything close to 1:42 in the 800. he was faster than Coe in the 1000 by around 2/10, despite being around 3 seconds faster for a 1500/mile
sorry. not a 1:42 guy. this is the thread where everybody conveniently forgets how EPO works.
Ngeny was a monster. I remember reading a thread from a long time ago on here talking about a track club with 3:30 - 3:35 guys doing 400m repeats with him and just getting murdered one by one
When there was no test for EPO, to put it in perspective.
Noah Nygeny currently holds the world record for the 1000m at 2:11.66. The 1000m is a seldom run distance, but will occasionally be run at a meet with special exceptions.
I think they can, but it would require some planning. While both has shown once in a generation mile talent, neither have shown top speed in the 800m. Both runners rely on strength to beat their opponents, and the 1000m needs an extra gear.
...
NEITHER the 2023 version f Jakob o Yared could even approach the 1000m WR. The record requires 1:45.5 for 800m and then PICK IT UP for a 26 sec last 200m. The 800 would be a huge pb for both and than they supposed to pick up the pace.
Noah had a 1:44.4 800 pb but ALSO 3:28.1 pb in 1500m. Jacob and Yared both have the strength but not the 800m speed to even contemplate the 800m. MAYBE in the future ONE year that they focus on the 800 and 1500m they would have a slim chance.
If you understand David Rudisha as a runner you will understand why this record is so difficult. People often say he was a 400/800 guy but I think that is wrong - 1:40 is simply so much better than 45.5. He is further ahead of Brazier at 800m than he is at 400m, and Brazier ran a 3:35 1500m.
Rudisha was just so good at 800m that his 400m was class as well, but IMO he would have a solid 1500m, possibly better than Brazier (it is possible that although Brazier loses more from 400m to 800m, he still has better range.)
The point is rudisha is pure 800m guy and he didn't break the record. Now maybe he could've, and I would have loved to see him try, but he didn't. And pure 800m guys and 400/800m guys tend to be better at the 800m than 800/1500 guys. So I feel if anyone is to break this record, it would be a pure 800m runner who is just slightly better than Rudisha. Obviously very unlikely but IMO a 3:27 or sub guy with 1:42 speed is more unlikely.
Your reasoning seems quite good based on your comparison of Rudisha and Brazier. And if you extended this to stress f.ex Juantorena as a typically 400 / 800m guy in contrast to Rudisha being a more plainly 800m guy it seemingly would strengthen your point even more…
But here’s the deal: Rudisha’s profile depends largely on who you choose to compare him to! Take f..ex 1996 Olympic 800m champion Vebjørn Rodahl (46.89 - 1.42.58 - 2.16.78 - 3.37.57) -Rudisha’s improvement from 400 to 800m is faltering compared to this. And the same of course compared to Coe’s 46.87 - 1.41.73…
Yes of course Ngeny was 1:42 capable at his best he ran El G into the ground
As for the current group only Kerr has a shot at the 1000m record.
Kerr is much less talented than Wightman at 800m and in my opinion no better than him at 1500m. Wightman couldn't break the 1000m world record last year when he was in the form and fitness of his life so I don't see any indication that Kerr would have more than a puncher's chance at it.
TL but come on - I believe you know know your stuff - you can’t discount the profiles of all the great 1000m runners (at least the ones at the top of the alltime list). We can guess all we want about guys ability but we surely can agree we are going to need to see Wanyoni (in this case) approach something in the realm of 3.30 flat for 1500m before this is even a discussion. Do you really see this happening? Really? And his final 200m might be a strength over 800m but the 1000m is 20% more running. And that’s considerable and not transferable (as you know).
Yes I understand your point. Arop last year running 2:14 as a pacer with limited 1500 credentials happened. He has somewhat improved to 3:38. I guess my point is that Elliot Giles/Marcin Lewandowski/Krumm heck a bunch of worse 800m runners than Arop/Wanyonyi run fast 1500s when they focus on it. I believe those two guys are indeed capable of 3:31-3:33 which would provide enough strength to get them close. The part that discourages me is 800m runners do not generally target 1000s whereas 1500 guys do. I genuinely believe both of the top 2 guys have it in their wheelhouse, but they won’t race it unless a DL organizer randomly puts it in.
Noah Nygeny currently holds the world record for the 1000m at 2:11.66. The 1000m is a seldom run distance, but will occasionally be run at a meet with special exceptions.
I think they can, but it would require some planning. While both has shown once in a generation mile talent, neither have shown top speed in the 800m. Both runners rely on strength to beat their opponents, and the 1000m needs an extra gear.
TL but come on - I believe you know know your stuff - you can’t discount the profiles of all the great 1000m runners (at least the ones at the top of the alltime list). We can guess all we want about guys ability but we surely can agree we are going to need to see Wanyoni (in this case) approach something in the realm of 3.30 flat for 1500m before this is even a discussion. Do you really see this happening? Really? And his final 200m might be a strength over 800m but the 1000m is 20% more running. And that’s considerable and not transferable (as you know).
Yes I understand your point. Arop last year running 2:14 as a pacer with limited 1500 credentials happened. He has somewhat improved to 3:38. I guess my point is that Elliot Giles/Marcin Lewandowski/Krumm heck a bunch of worse 800m runners than Arop/Wanyonyi run fast 1500s when they focus on it. I believe those two guys are indeed capable of 3:31-3:33 which would provide enough strength to get them close. The part that discourages me is 800m runners do not generally target 1000s whereas 1500 guys do. I genuinely believe both of the top 2 guys have it in their wheelhouse, but they won’t race it unless a DL organizer randomly puts it in.
Jakob couldn't run 1:45-flat for the 800. He would be lucky to beat 50 for the 400 - maybe 49-mid at best. He has no chance over the 1000.
Noah Nygeny currently holds the world record for the 1000m at 2:11.66. The 1000m is a seldom run distance, but will occasionally be run at a meet with special exceptions.
I think they can, but it would require some planning. While both has shown once in a generation mile talent, neither have shown top speed in the 800m. Both runners rely on strength to beat their opponents, and the 1000m needs an extra gear.
Nobody cares about the 1k, 2k or 2mile.
Yes, they do. They are races that have a history in the sport. They don't have to be championship distances.
Noah Nygeny currently holds the world record for the 1000m at 2:11.66. The 1000m is a seldom run distance, but will occasionally be run at a meet with special exceptions.
I think they can, but it would require some planning. While both has shown once in a generation mile talent, neither have shown top speed in the 800m. Both runners rely on strength to beat their opponents, and the 1000m needs an extra gear.
reading through some of this thread makes me think back to Brazier and how special of a talent he was.
really is a shame what happened to Brazier. could have been the best ever.
Yes I understand your point. Arop last year running 2:14 as a pacer with limited 1500 credentials happened. He has somewhat improved to 3:38. I guess my point is that Elliot Giles/Marcin Lewandowski/Krumm heck a bunch of worse 800m runners than Arop/Wanyonyi run fast 1500s when they focus on it. I believe those two guys are indeed capable of 3:31-3:33 which would provide enough strength to get them close. The part that discourages me is 800m runners do not generally target 1000s whereas 1500 guys do. I genuinely believe both of the top 2 guys have it in their wheelhouse, but they won’t race it unless a DL organizer randomly puts it in.
Jakob couldn't run 1:45-flat for the 800. He would be lucky to beat 50 for the 400 - maybe 49-mid at best. He has no chance over the 1000.
now that ngeny is a 1:42 low or 1:41 high, im not so sure about that. Jakob must be at least a 1:44.5
Honestly...at this point you should have ceased posting about the subject cuz you ain't no nuttin' bout Noah.
i know that he never ran anything close to 1:42 in the 800. he was faster than Coe in the 1000 by around 2/10, despite being around 3 seconds faster for a 1500/mile
sorry. not a 1:42 guy. this is the thread where everybody conveniently forgets how EPO works.
You don't know anything about Noah. Retreat is your best move at this point.
Jakob couldn't run 1:45-flat for the 800. He would be lucky to beat 50 for the 400 - maybe 49-mid at best. He has no chance over the 1000.
now that ngeny is a 1:42 low or 1:41 high, im not so sure about that. Jakob must be at least a 1:44.5
No, he isn't. That is a massive difference from his pr of 1:46-mid. He ran 51 for the 400 in his teens. He won't have gotten much faster - probably about 1.5secs.
i know that he never ran anything close to 1:42 in the 800. he was faster than Coe in the 1000 by around 2/10, despite being around 3 seconds faster for a 1500/mile
sorry. not a 1:42 guy. this is the thread where everybody conveniently forgets how EPO works.
You don't know anything about Noah. Retreat is your best move at this point.
Ngeny's best times were run when there was no test for EPO. End of discussion.
i know that he never ran anything close to 1:42 in the 800. he was faster than Coe in the 1000 by around 2/10, despite being around 3 seconds faster for a 1500/mile
sorry. not a 1:42 guy. this is the thread where everybody conveniently forgets how EPO works.
You don't know anything about Noah. Retreat is your best move at this point.
tell me everything you know. I KNOW he is not a 1:42 guy. he ran the 800 over 20x.
now that ngeny is a 1:42 low or 1:41 high, im not so sure about that. Jakob must be at least a 1:44.5
No, he isn't. That is a massive difference from his pr of 1:46-mid. He ran 51 for the 400 in his teens. He won't have gotten much faster - probably about 1.5secs.
i think people are what they have run, with SMALL allowances for performances in other races, huge negative splits, etc. i am being tongue in cheek about the 1:44.5 based on all the hype for ngeny and his imaginery 1:42 flat range.
