OP sounds like an entitled 18-year-old now attending Yale. In my experience, a disproportionate percentage of Elis are miserable, miserable people, but I digress.
What Princeton did wasn't a great look but who cares? A forgettable 20 minutes at an irrelevant meet that should have been canceled years ago.
This whole thread is a bunch of 50 year old men who went to Cornell decades ago complaining about the purity of the sport. You guys don’t look smart when you do this.
If you imagine everyone complaining in this thread to be Richard Gilmore, it's very funny.
No other NCAA sport would tolerate the type of obvious tanking that took place today at HYP.
Princeton and their coaches should be embarrassed. If you don’t want to race, just pay the fine and move on. Princeton alum should be embarrassed.
Who gives a F. Its cross country. If cross country runners and coaches don't take this crap seriously, then why ever expect anyone else outside the sport to care.
But can someone make sure I have all the facts? Based on weldon's video, Princeton clearly ran a c team who didn't even try and was laughing about it. But what about Harvard? Was this a B team that tried? Or a C team? How many eligible, healthy guys sat out? And did all of the guys who ran give 100% effort?
I guess succintly what I'm asking is this - Tell me what # on the team were the guys that ran for both Princeton and Harvard and if they gave 100% effort. Same thing for Yale.
No offense to my all my yale buddies - I once said I had two dream jobs in life - Texas basketball caoch or Yale xc coach - but i have a real hard time believing yale is better than harvard or princeton at anything related to running.
No one is against running a B or C team at a race or having an A or B team tempo a race. The point is that Princeton put out a C team and had them complete a recovery run. Harvard and Yale might've been at 70-80% of what they could've done, but Princeton was at 5%.
If a basketball team went out with the last 5 guys on the bench and only had them practice bounce passes and never let them take a shot, we would be up in arms and their conference would likely take action against them. That is the comparison we are talking about.
This is why cross country is a joke and doesn't have any fans outside of parents and ex cross country runners.
Yes. I plan to file a protest against every runner in every track race where they don't give their best effort. That is about 90% of the distance races.
OP sounds like an entitled 18-year-old now attending Yale. In my experience, a disproportionate percentage of Elis are miserable, miserable people, but I digress.
I would assume that the majority of Elis are Amish. I'd be miserable too without electricity. But yes, you do digress.
OP sounds like an entitled 18-year-old now attending Yale. In my experience, a disproportionate percentage of Elis are miserable, miserable people, but I digress.
I would assume that the majority of Elis are Amish. I'd be miserable too without electricity. But yes, you do digress.
Somebody doesn't do the New York Times crossword. Uncultured heathen.
As a former college MD guy, I can say I would have been pretty pissed if my coach made me travel a few hours to an away XC meet to jog in last place and look like an idiot just to fulfill some sort of conference obligation.
this is my point. the coach feels obligated. but the 800m guys who got told to sub in, who thought they were signing up for offseason training, might be the ones who decided to loaf it.
one thing not being mentioned is the people they sent don't look like experienced B teamers, they look like throwaway C team. it's a group of many seniors who have maybe 2 total XC meets over 4 years, added together. that's C team not B team. like these aren't guys 8-14 off a 20 man team. they'd have more XC meets in 4 years. this is they literally scraped the bottom of the barrel or the TF guys practicing with them just to show up with some guys. that's where i say it's "selection" instead of "effort."
like i said, fact the women showed up and competed fine suggests it's not a coach led issue with the whole meet -- they didn't jog in a slow line -- but a response of a runner set. this group of men were like, you can make me do this to stay on the team and run spring TF but i am not trying hard. i seriously doubt the coach was like hmmm let me tell my team to go out and embarrass themselves at a traditional meet that is going nowhere ie that he will have to run next year and the year after, and which only risks his job going forward.
to me if they sent guys 8-14 you get the effort if anything because that rank of B guys want the A team slots. here's your shot. am i going to use it for some protest or to make my case. exactly. now if the coach shows up on friday or the day of the meet and says, you know what, TF guys working out with the team, last minute notice, you run this meet. no. want to keep your track scholarship? ok, but i won't try.
comparison to me is my HS coach trying to tell a couple of us soccer players who usually got dispensation for some of the running, we had to run the whole 10k race sim right before the weekend we had a meet and a select game. dude and i chatted, we are jogging this. coach got over it and we didn't run out legs off. this is a more embarrassing version because it's public but to me feels like the same dynamic. i just don't buy a coach literally causes himself trouble with his job by ordering a team to tank. he instead subs on his bench. the bench does what it does. this was like he called on bench that didn't see itself as even really available bench.
the part you're missing is they looked 80% or more like TF runners with no XC meets. they might not care what their XC TFRRS looks like if they aren't really XC guys. they might wear their protest as a badge of pride.
my college TF coach had me, a short sprinter and hurdler, run an 800 one time. i did ok and a lot better than many 800 noobs would. but if anyone gives me guff over the time, dude, i didn't train for this. to be fair, i ran it seriously and did ok. but i also expected to be at a track doing something that day. their race histories suggest they were roped into this and perhaps not happy about it. you're then like "history will judge." meh. anyone asks the runner they'll tell you the other half of that history. so what.
"Sanctioned"? "Fine"? I'm confused. I'm relatively new to college coaching (30+ years) and have never heard of either. Can someone clue me in?
Hi lease, who has coached for 30 years, you sound like a typical douche college coach. NCAA violations result in consequences. This is a Level 1 violation, affecting the integrity of the sport. The fine I’m referring to, is the fine Princeton would have to pay if they don’t run a team at HYPs. That’s part of an agreement these schools have. Your “30+ years” of coaching have you more focused on vocabulary than the sport. Typical head coach who has become a bureaucrat to keep his job.Think what this move does to the other teams who show up to run. It’s embarrassing. Yes sanctions and fines, or whatever you want yo call it. NCAA rule violation = punishment.
For what its worth, '@Tigers should go down' sounds like an aggressive type-A douche.
But that's just the way it comes off through his post, so maybe he's just super passionate.