James King 49.00 at 400 m h in 1978. 1:47.86 at 800 in 1982. Had the pleasure of having him as my guest as the two of us looked at 400 m h Olympics 1988 on TV. If you had written 1:50 it could have made some sense.
Despite the fact that some would see me as a Jakob fan boy I’ve got this kind of scheme approach in my head: Jakob Ingebrigtsen is too fast twitch to have any talent for the 10000m, half marathon and marathon (as well as worlds xc). And he is certainly too slow to have any talent for the 100/400 and 800meters…
Jakob himself has said that he’s got hopes for the 10k, half and full marathon (yeah even thinks he could run way faster in the 800m) but I think he doesn’t know enough about the sport or his own capacity… (Somewhat alike Karsten Warholm who thinks he could be world class in the 800m despite every sign telling us he couldn’t run sub 2 in a million years)…
Unfortunately I’ve got this simplistic scheme / form in my head: 1. Jakob has too poor 100m speed to run a fast 800m. 2. Jakob is too fast in the 800m to run a fast 10000m…
I would love to be proven wrong. -Imagine Jakob crushing the 10k, half and full!
Here are my dreams for Jakob: Being clearly subordinate/ underdog in a 10000m (compared to Kiplimo, Cheptegei, Kejelcha) he hangs on for dear life in a global championship and gets a medal because one of the favourite miscalculates his efforts… (The same in a flat worlds xc course)… And that he breaks Mo Farah’s pb in the half.. (All three times so spent afterwards that he cannot speak for three hours…!)
What do you think -am I an idiot?
Yes you are an idiot. Jakob will break the current 10,000m record and he will go sub 1:45 in the 800m if he tries seriously in his high season under good conditions.
Jakob is one of the fastest finishers of the current 1500m runners despite what all the negativists have convinced each others about.
Well, I hope I’m an idiot, because I would love to see Jakob sub 1.45 and setting a new WR in the 10000m! (And as a matter of fact: I didn’t say he couldn’t run sub 1.45).
But do you regard Jakob as an idiot as well? (Before the olympics he said he never would run 1.44 ever!)
And in your next post you are saying the conflicting “at least sub 26.30” (as opposed to WR in the former); well, where in my post did I say that Jakob couldn’t run sub 26.30?!
This post was edited 4 minutes after it was posted.
You must be wrong -I can’t be an idiot, because if you take a look on my original post there’s only 6 arrows up and a massive 140 down. And my last question was: “Am I an idiot” (140 vote down / no on this question, and only 6 yes, as for now…😂
This is too funny. When Jakob said he was faster than Warholm in any distance over 400, he OF COURSE was talking about regular track-distances! He didnt think Warholm would fall apart like a bag of sand after 400. Jakob obviously was talking about 800 and longer: 1000, 1500, mile, 2000, 3000 and so forth.
This is too funny. When Jakob said he was faster than Warholm in any distance over 400, he OF COURSE was talking about regular track-distances! He didnt think Warholm would fall apart like a bag of sand after 400. Jakob obviously was talking about 800 and longer: 1000, 1500, mile, 2000, 3000 and so forth.
No he wasn’t, because there was a debate in Norwegian media post olympics (and among experts) who would win in an 600m/700/800m, and there were splitting opinions, and some bold even thought the tipping point was on 500m, and Jakob knew this background perfectly well -therefore he laughed condescending, and smashed out: “I will beat him in every distance above 400. He is a sprinter -he doesn’t even hold 400m! LOL!”
Was Jakob really condescending -of course not. He was of course as impressed by Warholm’s latest WR in Tokyo as all of us. But he had to tell that you can’t glide on a 400m speed / capacity -not even to a 600m (Neither Juantorena nor Schmid did that).! Saying that I suggest that Jakob himself can have a blind spot (but we don’t know -he hasn’t said that he can WR in the 10k) and think that he can glide (f.ex from a -likely- 5000m WR) to a 10000m WR. -Cheptegei didn’t do that at all (nor Bekele, nor Geb and so on) -he is a 10000m specialist among many other things!
No he wasn’t, because there was a debate in Norwegian media post olympics (and among experts) who would win in an 600m/700/800m, and there were splitting opinions, and some bold even thought the tipping point was on 500m, and Jakob knew this background perfectly well -therefore he laughed condescending, and smashed out: “I will beat him in every distance above 400. He is a sprinter -he doesn’t even hold 400m! LOL!”
600m should be a fair match I would love to see. Anything under is for Warholm, anything over is for Jakob.
I guess Jakob was joking here. I can't himagine him thinking he is faster than Warholm for 450 or 500m, that doesn't make sens.
No he wasn’t, because there was a debate in Norwegian media post olympics (and among experts) who would win in an 600m/700/800m, and there were splitting opinions, and some bold even thought the tipping point was on 500m, and Jakob knew this background perfectly well -therefore he laughed condescending, and smashed out: “I will beat him in every distance above 400. He is a sprinter -he doesn’t even hold 400m! LOL!”
600m should be a fair match I would love to see. Anything under is for Warholm, anything over is for Jakob.
I guess Jakob was joking here. I can't himagine him thinking he is faster than Warholm for 450 or 500m, that doesn't make sens.
There’s always a level of “joke” in our serious beliefs, and always something serious in our jokes. And of course Jakob doesn’t think he can beat Karsten in a 402 m race (one can perhaps estimate a 5 sec 400m flat difference in capacity between the two of them..).
There is not much physiologic difference between the 5 and the 10k, and even with the HM
Hmmm, yeah probably. 5k-10k definitely faster than lactate threshold but slower than VV02max. HM for most is slower than lactate threshold, but i think for world class 1hr or less maybe it's slightly faster that LT? Renata?
Regardless, the training is very similar, he should eventually have Euro records from 1.5k-10k. Probably HM (59:13, One hit wonder Wanders). Abdi's 203.36 M record is a big stretch. Cram's 1 mile of 3:46:32 is still a tough one too, partly because the mile is not run so often.
He should eventually have ERs for 1500m to 10K. EVENTUALLY? He already holds the 1500m, the 2000m, the 3000m (set on the way to the 2 mile WB) and the 5000m ERs!.
But no WRs? Even EVENTUALLY?
Are you aware that Jakob´s 2 mile WB indicates WR´s in the 1500m, the mile , the 2000m, the 3000m and the 5000m. And a time very close to the 10,000m WR.
And that his 3:27.95 equals a mile in 3:44.7? And Jakob was just short of Cram´s mile ER already last year?
This is too funny. When Jakob said he was faster than Warholm in any distance over 400, he OF COURSE was talking about regular track-distances! He didnt think Warholm would fall apart like a bag of sand after 400. Jakob obviously was talking about 800 and longer: 1000, 1500, mile, 2000, 3000 and so forth.
James King 49.00 at 400 m h in 1978. 1:47.86 at 800 in 1982. Had the pleasure of having him as my guest as the two of us looked at 400 m h Olympics 1988 on TV. If you had written 1:50 it could have made some sense.
There’s “a lot of” hurdlers who could have beaten Jakob in a 600/700/800 and possibly (well maybe one or two) a 1000m too…
I’m not sure what Karsten Warholm can do in a 800m (although I think he beats Frank Kerley with at least 5 sec) -Karsten is somewhat an enigma. -His pr’s as a child and young teenager was really bad, especially in the 600 /800 / 1000m. And as an adult (decathlon athlete ) his 800/1000 and 1500m stayed ridiculously slow even compared to some other decathlon athletes… 2.00 min is just a round number. So my guess may be as bad as 2.02 or as “good” as 1.58. But I don’t know -Warholm is an enigma, and a really tough guy….!
You are saying around 1.50 -well, if we were speaking about Edwin Moses I would say yes…(Especially because I know the time -he ran 1.49 - well 1.48.98 to be precise) . But Moses was much slower than Warholm in a 100m all out, and therefore he (Moses) had a huge advantage versus Warholm in the 800m. -People think there’s an advantage for a 400m runner to have a good 100m pb when approaching the 800m, (a lot of unused reserve), but it isn't -it’s the other way around. -Check the statistics and you will be overwhelmed…!
Fun fact: Edwin Moses got an even bigger mouth than Warholm. -Around 1980 he told us that the newly improved WR in the 800m was weak, and that he himself probably could run sub 1.40. So what did he do? He ran 9 sec shy of this! (He also thought he could glide…)
But I also suspected your “egregious” (man -this from a poster who has written that Jakob’s head literally is “too huge” - and with no clues in his post that this is meant ironically or as a kind of sarcasm..!)
“Anyone who was following the sport in the 80s and 90s will remember reading about how Jim Spivey’s head weighed only 9 pounds, 2 ounces—remarkably light for a human male of his stature. He used to say in interviews that his athletic success was “10% training, 90% my unusually light head”. There are old reports of the great German 5k runner Harald Norpoth’s head dipping under 3.5 kilos (7.72 lbs.) during periods of heavy training, but those are as dubious as Jim Ryun’s sub-50 last 400 in Düsseldorf, IMO. Jakob’s head looks to me like a 13 pounder, though I can’t find an exact figure online (World Athletics should include that on their athlete profiles—hello amateur hour). At 2 seconds a mile per pound of superfluous weight, that means that with even an average 11 pound head Jakob would already have run: 3:26.46, 3:44.46, 7:23.33, 12:42.15 Times which seem far more appropriate for someone of Jakob’s pedigree.”
You honestly read this and didn’t know I was joking?
“10% training, 90% my unusually light head?”…really? No clues that I was joking?
But I also suspected your “egregious” (man -this from a poster who has written that Jakob’s head literally is “too huge” - and with no clues in his post that this is meant ironically or as a kind of sarcasm..!)
“Anyone who was following the sport in the 80s and 90s will remember reading about how Jim Spivey’s head weighed only 9 pounds, 2 ounces—remarkably light for a human male of his stature. He used to say in interviews that his athletic success was “10% training, 90% my unusually light head”. There are old reports of the great German 5k runner Harald Norpoth’s head dipping under 3.5 kilos (7.72 lbs.) during periods of heavy training, but those are as dubious as Jim Ryun’s sub-50 last 400 in Düsseldorf, IMO. Jakob’s head looks to me like a 13 pounder, though I can’t find an exact figure online (World Athletics should include that on their athlete profiles—hello amateur hour). At 2 seconds a mile per pound of superfluous weight, that means that with even an average 11 pound head Jakob would already have run: 3:26.46, 3:44.46, 7:23.33, 12:42.15 Times which seem far more appropriate for someone of Jakob’s pedigree.”
You honestly read this and didn’t know I was joking?
“10% training, 90% my unusually light head?”…really? No clues that I was joking?
Let me be 100% honest even if I come out as a little less intelligent or somewhat autistic (no offence to anybody -autistic people can be as diverse as any of us)….
Yes, I thought you meant Jakob’s head was to huge / heavy, and that this fact had a direct influence on his running….
I myself thought the whole thing was bull, but I thought you meant it seriously! Your post (or was it more than one) made such impact on me that I remember I said this to my wife: “Here’s a knowledgeable and serious poster who says something extremely bizarre about Jakob Ingebrigtsen.” And I went on explaining that your post was a response to another poster who clearly was trolling by repeatedly claiming Jakob’s head as to heavy. And I said I first thought it was a joke (from you) or sarcasm or irony, but after reading your post carefully twice I first was confused (because the content didn’t match your behaviour profile), and then really concluded this was an unexpected idiosyncrasies… (Many very bright people got this -yeah, maybe all of us!)..
I have been called many things (among them narcissistic-got some traits) but never autistic, cause I like focusing on context… And in my work life I have counselled a lot of people with Asperger’s syndrome (and witnessed how many suffering under a too concretely perception).
I see the sarcasm now that you explain and exemplifies. But I will not take all the blame -you should have incorporated some clues, maybe a smiley at the end or something… (And to be even clearer -some posters here may think I am trolling in this thread anout Jakob and Karsten -some may think so, some may only be sarcastic. Even though I’m dead serious about what I say about Jakob and Karsten here). So we must not be too subtle here (writing doesn’t give clues from body language, voice or laughter…)
You wouldn’t believe it, but I got a lot of training in looking after subtle clues in poetry and song lyrics (because the subtle things here often is the point. But there must be something -a kind of phrasing or hint or even a light stress in somebody’s voice…
Your (supposed) hero, Bob Dylan, got f.ex the song “Most of the Time”: Most of the Time I can keep my feet on the ground…. And I don’t even think about her…Most of the Time it’s well understood.. I wouldn’t even remember her if I saw her…” -well the whole song is ironic, and Dylan gives a lot of clues why he means the opposite of what he sings, and it can be subtle but he knows the listener must have something that is quite decisive…
Lastly: There’s a lot of strange and bizarre writing, also in these forums. I’m sure I’m not the only one who misunderstood, but good for both of us that we got it sorted out…
But you still use the word “egregious”, and that’s a little bizarre in my view -you should have comprehended that I didn’t want to offend any, neither Warholm nor Ingebrigtsen ++.. They are stellar athletes!
Yes you are an idiot. Jakob will break the current 10,000m record and he will go sub 1:45 in the 800m if he tries seriously in his high season under good conditions.
Jakob is one of the fastest finishers of the current 1500m runners despite what all the negativists have convinced each others about.
Well, I hope I’m an idiot, because I would love to see Jakob sub 1.45 and setting a new WR in the 10000m! (And as a matter of fact: I didn’t say he couldn’t run sub 1.45).
But do you regard Jakob as an idiot as well? (Before the olympics he said he never would run 1.44 ever!)
And in your next post you are saying the conflicting “at least sub 26.30” (as opposed to WR in the former); well, where in my post did I say that Jakob couldn’t run sub 26.30?!
OK I could have expressed myself a little bit better a bout Jakob´s potential in the 10,000m.
I postulated that he can break the CURRENT WR in the 10,000m. By that I meant that it will possibly happen in the future and some body else (Kiplimo) could already have broken it.
Sub 26:30 is what I think he can run right now if he is in top shape.
I will write more about his potential in the 10,000m as an answer to one of your other posts where you in my opinion is far to pessimistic when you are measuring Jakob against Cheptegei, Kiplimo and others.
“Anyone who was following the sport in the 80s and 90s will remember reading about how Jim Spivey’s head weighed only 9 pounds, 2 ounces—remarkably light for a human male of his stature. He used to say in interviews that his athletic success was “10% training, 90% my unusually light head”. There are old reports of the great German 5k runner Harald Norpoth’s head dipping under 3.5 kilos (7.72 lbs.) during periods of heavy training, but those are as dubious as Jim Ryun’s sub-50 last 400 in Düsseldorf, IMO. Jakob’s head looks to me like a 13 pounder, though I can’t find an exact figure online (World Athletics should include that on their athlete profiles—hello amateur hour). At 2 seconds a mile per pound of superfluous weight, that means that with even an average 11 pound head Jakob would already have run: 3:26.46, 3:44.46, 7:23.33, 12:42.15 Times which seem far more appropriate for someone of Jakob’s pedigree.”
You honestly read this and didn’t know I was joking?
“10% training, 90% my unusually light head?”…really? No clues that I was joking?
Let me be 100% honest even if I come out as a little less intelligent or somewhat autistic (no offence to anybody -autistic people can be as diverse as any of us)….
Yes, I thought you meant Jakob’s head was to huge / heavy, and that this fact had a direct influence on his running….
I myself thought the whole thing was bull, but I thought you meant it seriously! Your post (or was it more than one) made such impact on me that I remember I said this to my wife: “Here’s a knowledgeable and serious poster who says something extremely bizarre about Jakob Ingebrigtsen.” And I went on explaining that your post was a response to another poster who clearly was trolling by repeatedly claiming Jakob’s head as to heavy. And I said I first thought it was a joke (from you) or sarcasm or irony, but after reading your post carefully twice I first was confused (because the content didn’t match your behaviour profile), and then really concluded this was an unexpected idiosyncrasies… (Many very bright people got this -yeah, maybe all of us!)..
I have been called many things (among them narcissistic-got some traits) but never autistic, cause I like focusing on context… And in my work life I have counselled a lot of people with Asperger’s syndrome (and witnessed how many suffering under a too concretely perception).
I see the sarcasm now that you explain and exemplifies. But I will not take all the blame -you should have incorporated some clues, maybe a smiley at the end or something… (And to be even clearer -some posters here may think I am trolling in this thread anout Jakob and Karsten -some may think so, some may only be sarcastic. Even though I’m dead serious about what I say about Jakob and Karsten here). So we must not be too subtle here (writing doesn’t give clues from body language, voice or laughter…)
You wouldn’t believe it, but I got a lot of training in looking after subtle clues in poetry and song lyrics (because the subtle things here often is the point. But there must be something -a kind of phrasing or hint or even a light stress in somebody’s voice…
Your (supposed) hero, Bob Dylan, got f.ex the song “Most of the Time”: Most of the Time I can keep my feet on the ground…. And I don’t even think about her…Most of the Time it’s well understood.. I wouldn’t even remember her if I saw her…” -well the whole song is ironic, and Dylan gives a lot of clues why he means the opposite of what he sings, and it can be subtle but he knows the listener must have something that is quite decisive…
Lastly: There’s a lot of strange and bizarre writing, also in these forums. I’m sure I’m not the only one who misunderstood, but good for both of us that we got it sorted out…
But you still use the word “egregious”, and that’s a little bizarre in my view -you should have comprehended that I didn’t want to offend any, neither Warholm nor Ingebrigtsen ++.. They are stellar athletes!
Let me be 100% honest even if I come out as a little less intelligent or somewhat autistic (no offence to anybody -autistic people can be as diverse as any of us)….
Yes, I thought you meant Jakob’s head was to huge / heavy, and that this fact had a direct influence on his running….
I myself thought the whole thing was bull, but I thought you meant it seriously! Your post (or was it more than one) made such impact on me that I remember I said this to my wife: “Here’s a knowledgeable and serious poster who says something extremely bizarre about Jakob Ingebrigtsen.” And I went on explaining that your post was a response to another poster who clearly was trolling by repeatedly claiming Jakob’s head as to heavy. And I said I first thought it was a joke (from you) or sarcasm or irony, but after reading your post carefully twice I first was confused (because the content didn’t match your behaviour profile), and then really concluded this was an unexpected idiosyncrasies… (Many very bright people got this -yeah, maybe all of us!)..
I have been called many things (among them narcissistic-got some traits) but never autistic, cause I like focusing on context… And in my work life I have counselled a lot of people with Asperger’s syndrome (and witnessed how many suffering under a too concretely perception).
I see the sarcasm now that you explain and exemplifies. But I will not take all the blame -you should have incorporated some clues, maybe a smiley at the end or something… (And to be even clearer -some posters here may think I am trolling in this thread anout Jakob and Karsten -some may think so, some may only be sarcastic. Even though I’m dead serious about what I say about Jakob and Karsten here). So we must not be too subtle here (writing doesn’t give clues from body language, voice or laughter…)
You wouldn’t believe it, but I got a lot of training in looking after subtle clues in poetry and song lyrics (because the subtle things here often is the point. But there must be something -a kind of phrasing or hint or even a light stress in somebody’s voice…
Your (supposed) hero, Bob Dylan, got f.ex the song “Most of the Time”: Most of the Time I can keep my feet on the ground…. And I don’t even think about her…Most of the Time it’s well understood.. I wouldn’t even remember her if I saw her…” -well the whole song is ironic, and Dylan gives a lot of clues why he means the opposite of what he sings, and it can be subtle but he knows the listener must have something that is quite decisive…
Lastly: There’s a lot of strange and bizarre writing, also in these forums. I’m sure I’m not the only one who misunderstood, but good for both of us that we got it sorted out…
But you still use the word “egregious”, and that’s a little bizarre in my view -you should have comprehended that I didn’t want to offend any, neither Warholm nor Ingebrigtsen ++.. They are stellar athletes!
I dont know what are you saying . Sure I know that Jakob Ingebrigtsen is one of the greatest talent ever lived in distance running. Let's say that this 2023 Jakob is already very near world record shape in 3000 and 5000 . That two mile race proves this. He said he would love to have all the records till the Marathon . I think that at 22 years old he can achieve every goal in the future. Probably is more difficult the 1500 record for him than those of longer distances
This post was edited 56 seconds after it was posted.
James King 49.00 at 400 m h in 1978. 1:47.86 at 800 in 1982. Had the pleasure of having him as my guest as the two of us looked at 400 m h Olympics 1988 on TV. If you had written 1:50 it could have made some sense.
There’s “a lot of” hurdlers who could have beaten Jakob in a 600/700/800 and possibly (well maybe one or two) a 1000m too…
I’m not sure what Karsten Warholm can do in a 800m (although I think he beats Frank Kerley with at least 5 sec) -Karsten is somewhat an enigma. -His pr’s as a child and young teenager was really bad, especially in the 600 /800 / 1000m. And as an adult (decathlon athlete ) his 800/1000 and 1500m stayed ridiculously slow even compared to some other decathlon athletes… 2.00 min is just a round number. So my guess may be as bad as 2.02 or as “good” as 1.58. But I don’t know -Warholm is an enigma, and a really tough guy….!
You are saying around 1.50 -well, if we were speaking about Edwin Moses I would say yes…(Especially because I know the time -he ran 1.49 - well 1.48.98 to be precise) . But Moses was much slower than Warholm in a 100m all out, and therefore he (Moses) had a huge advantage versus Warholm in the 800m. -People think there’s an advantage for a 400m runner to have a good 100m pb when approaching the 800m, (a lot of unused reserve), but it isn't -it’s the other way around. -Check the statistics and you will be overwhelmed…!
Fun fact: Edwin Moses got an even bigger mouth than Warholm. -Around 1980 he told us that the newly improved WR in the 800m was weak, and that he himself probably could run sub 1.40. So what did he do? He ran 9 sec shy of this! (He also thought he could glide…)
OK, good arguments. I am going to check some statistics. A friend of mine, over 50 years ago, 48.60 at 400. Though he did'nt train very much ran 2:04. So may be you are right. Or perhaps not.
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