What colleges would be a good fit for a 9:40/4:30 guy

If academics are super important to you just focus on that in college. Your times won’t get you on a D1 team. If your academics are top notch just apply to the IVY schools, get the education you want and forget about running. Face it dude, you’re just not an elite runner.

Look at an excellent DIII school. Williams often has a top running program, but there are loads of others.

definitely agree with everyone that has said small DIII school if your grades are up for it. NESCAC, centennial conference, SUNY schools all come to mind. Tom Donnelly at Haverford has among the best track record of any coach at making a 4:30 guy into a 4:07-4:12 guy by senior year. Williams obviously is very successful, though 4:30 might even be a bit slow to get much attention there. MIT has been cranking out great runners for years now. SUNY Geneseo has had some real talent come through, and has done a good job developing that talent. Johns Hopkins, same story. All (maybe not SUNY) of these schools have an alumni network that is much more valuable than a business degree from a lesser school. You can always get an MBA after getting an undergrad degree, so I wouldn't worry too much about specializing in business in undergrad.

Honestly check out NYU, especially if you are into business (Stern is elite). Young program on the come up, resources of a mid-D1 school, only downsides are running in the city (not that bad honestly, and if you like nyc then it's well worth it) and the price, obviously.

Augustana University is probably better than any D1 that will take an athlete with your marks. multiple sub 14s in recent years. Theyll get ya straight. Transfer D1 after a few years there if you want.

Go to the very best school academically that you think you'll have the most fun at.

Realistically, that's going to mean more to you in 5 years. There will be a good track/XC team at most colleges, and to be blunt, it's not worth making selections based on track/XC at the college level unless you genuinely believe you'll go pro.

So, in other words, you're 30s in the mile away from where it makes any sense to do that, or 2 minutes in the 5k. Don't let it negatively affect your college choices.

To be extreme, don't go to Oregon or whatever if you could go to Harvard over this.

Ivies give financial aid based on need, and they all give SUBSTANTIAL aid. If your family makes ~$130,000 a year and doesn't have a hefty 529 or tons of money outside of a retirement plan, you will get FULL TUITION. If your family makes ~$80,000 with the above condition, you will get FULL TUITION AND ROOM AND BOARD.

For most students who go to an Ivy, the cost is very affordable.

More than 1/2 pay the full $85K. Maybe you don't know what most is.

Many of us are better at saving than you. We paid our house off. We own our cars. We maxed out 401ks. But we still managed to save $2M outside of those things.

But there are plenty of us who make more than that arbitrary threshold who aren’t willing to play the game and, unethically in my opinion, sink all of our extra cash into buying new cars and renovating our houses to appear poor to receive aid.

So, for those people, and that’s who I’m talking to, don’t spend $85,000, ALL IN, at ANY school. It’s not worth it. As others have said, the terminal degree matters more. Moreover, there are plenty of schools, not considered “elite” but still really good that give significant merit aid. If you have a kid who’s bound for medical school, which is going to be a costly grind, why wouldn’t you go to the best, private school that offers the most merit money?

I agree. We did one thing but I wouldn't recommend it for most people. One of the schools recommended that we buy expensive art because they don't consider that in their formula but we didn't think that was ethical. It ia amazing at how the schools determine ability to pay. We have friends who earn significantly more than us and have expensive houses and cars and take multiple vacations and the Ivies charge them less than us. With their endowments, I would expect them to go to an actual need blind system and charge everyone the same minimal amount.

This right here. But even better if you can get significant merit aid at a private school if you truly have the grades, test scores, and extracurriculars to get admitted to an Ivy.

What’s wrong with schools like Davidson, Richmond, or William and Mary? Just go somewhere like that if you can make the team and mitigate your cost. Trinity University in TX is another really good school with a strong alumni network that offers significant merit aid and the possibility to compete for full tuition. I don’t know anything about their xc/track, but there are plenty of schools like this out there. Plenty.

💯% agree!

My wife worked as an Admissions counselor at a D3 for several years with an admission rate <25% and a robust athletic department.

There was an admissions liaison that would meet with each HC weekly during app season to essentially get their short-list of top recruits. They would work with them on any students who were below the incoming class' academic profile to see if they were admissible; often the answer was no, but exceptions were made, particularly for students where their HS was significantly underfunded (rural, no AP classes, no librarians/clubs/extracurricular opportunities, no SAT prep, etc.) but the student showed promise and, of course, if the coach could demonstrate that this student could represent the University well on the national stage (All-American potential).

Generally speaking, this resulted in like 5 students (total) being admitted because they were exceptional athletes but also showed that they would be able to handle the academic load upon enrollment (in-person interview, letters of rec, re-taking standardized tests).

Short answer: yes, it could help a lot if there are 10 students that are the same on paper, but one of them has a coach advocating for their admission.

Managing your finances up to the time your children are accepted to college is prudent. There is nothing unethical about making home improvements (home improvements are necessary) and sinking as much of your income as possible into retirement accounts so that your are lean with extra cash when it is time for your kids to apply to college.

There are a LOT of other colleges, both public and private, that also give excellent financial aid based on financial need. MOST of those are top-tier colleges, so you have to have great grades and/or test scores to get in. Yes, of course, there are schools that give excellent scholarship money based on merit (academic and/or athletic), and that's a viable option for many.

The reason I commented initially is because of the comment that Ivies cost $340K or whatever the number was. That's just not the case for the vast majority of people.

The average household income for a family of 4 in my state of Ohio is $100,693. If that family was maxing out retirement income alone, they could easily be lean on cash without having to try to be lean on cash. In fact, they very likely would NOT be able to max out their retirement accounts or anywhere close to it on that income.

Here's a table of the average household income in all 50 states:

I hope you are still reading this thread. If you are there have been some excellent posts that have hopefully given you something to think about. Here is one more that may apply to your situation:

One of our runners did not gain admission to their first choice school. That athlete reluctantly started their college career at a UC system school. They hated it! It was not a good fit. Instead of staying, he came back home and enrolled in the Honors Program at the local community college. The counselor at the CC was outstanding and set up a plan for that student. After completing that plan, the student was accepted to UC Berkeley. He eventually graduated from law school.

The reason I shared this is that no matter where you attend college, it is not etched in stone that you have to remain there for all four years.

It’s “prudent” if you are close to the line. I believe you said you were making about $150,000 when your kids went to college. Which is a lot of money in OH, but not so much in, say, CA or DC area.

Not everyone has the “luxury” of being prudent. But I know many families who live in nicer houses than I do and drive fancier cars and are just spendy people who got “need” based aid, which I think is complete bull$hit, because it is. I mean, was it not prudent for me to forego buying the $2.5 million house and two luxury vehicles so that I could exhaust our savings to get financial aid for college, independent of our 401ks?

Ivies cost full price for a substantial percentage of people. It’s not like 90% of families are getting full tuition. Now, some people are fine with that. Personally, I think it’s a colossal waste of money.

OP, I already mentioned Trinity University in TX. It was on my daughter’s short list, but she ended up going to a very similar school in the southeast that gave her more money. Not many people have heard of Trinity, but they have an extremely robust alumni network (#1 in TX), which is extremely important after graduation and it is widely regarded as the “backup” school for Rice for those who either couldn’t get into Rice or didn’t want to pay full price. Trinity is very generous with merit money, giving up to $32,000 per year I believe, with the possibility of competing for full tuition.

Check out their xc roster. You are at the same level or slightly faster than most of their guys, but most of this kids were valedictorians and salutatorians, or like high math or foreign language honor students, top of their class. If you want a balanced college experience with the ability to compete and have fun and also have challenging academics, but without the pressure cooker that is maybe a Harvard, then find a school like this. Trinity has a really good and unique business school too. I recall USNWR always had this school ranked #1 in Regional West universities.

I’m just saying there are plenty of hidden gems like this out there that will give you a robust education and great alumni network with the ability to compete on a team all through college. Find one. Doesn’t have to be Trinity.

You falsely state this everytime this topic comes up. You claim that the vast majority don't pay full price. That is a lie. 56% of students at Brown pay the full price which is $85K for 2023. The average student pays $57K.

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