Transgender athletes wins CT state champs for school

Long term, I think the only solution that will thread the needle between fair competition and the changing viewpoints on gender is to divide sports competition on biology, not gender.

We don't need to move mountains to accomplish this. You're 95% of the way there if you replace "Male" and "Female" competitive divisions with "Open" and "Restricted."

I've fretted about this issue for a long time, and it irritates me that it's now become conflated with national politics. It's hard enough to deal with the politics of the individual sports organizations. Now we've also tied the whole thing up with the Culture Wars, in which some of the staunchest opponents of trans women competing with women happen to be people who wouldn't be considered an ally of women's sports in any other context.

Some of the people fighting for "women's sports" would happily kneecap Title IX if the chance came up, and never get tired of mocking women's professional sports (WNBA and women's tennis being particularly common targets). For those of us who legitimately do care about women's sports, their...contributions aren't helping.

Problem of course is a transwoman has no chance against a guy. The old test. matters argument. That is about as good of solution as just having 1 division.

And yes trans people are lower than woman on the right wings list of people to hate.

This might come as a surprise, but people who feel wrong enough being male that they'll go through medical transition to be as close to female as possible, or are working toward doing so, are not exactly going to be moved by you insulting their manhood -- the manhood they don't want.

That doesn't mean they should have an automatic right to compete in the women's division, but I've already explained my view on that (post #43, and others elsewhere on this forum).

I don't know anyone involved, so truly feel a bit unemotional about this given how often it's happening. The pendulum will swing back the other way, but in the meantime the growing pangs are intense and that's what we're experiencing.

I wanted to point out the apparent trajectory of this athlete. It very much appears they were new to the sport at the beginning of the season.

In the span of 40 days these are the 1st and last results of the season.

Apr 22 - SP 27'3" | 15th out of 34 at season-opening invite
Apr 22 - D 60' 5" | 24th out of 32 at season-opening invite

Jun 1 - SP 39'11.5" | 1st in CT
Jun 1 - D 117'2" | 2nd in CT

If this individual were to train seriously in the weight room and with a great technique coach I bet they break the state records next year. Possibly by a lot.

I think most of us are. But we get shouted down by the vocal minority who despise the very same transgendered folks who they spank it to on porn sites.

Thanks, bro. #Mansplain it sooner next time and we won't need so much "bandwidth." #MeToo #HerStory #PinkPuzzyHat

Thanks for that information. A photo on Facebook taken just a little more than a year ago of Redmond Sullivan shown standing with a grown woman indicates that this male individual probably has a big advantage over girls/women of the same age simply in terms of overall size and build.

https://www.facebook.com/photo/?fbid=2824897057804099&set=pcb.2824902047803600

But even if this HS athlete were the same exact height and weight of the female athletes he's competed against in girs' HS field events, as a male senior HS student who is probably 18 or so, he invevitably has huge natural advantages over even the tallest, heaviest and most well-muscled female field athletes in terms of overall muscle mass; bone size and denstity; grip, arm and upper body strength; heart and lung size and power; hemoglobin; tendon force capacity; and throwing power.

From the earliest ages for which USATF keeps records males consistenty outperform females by very wide margins in the throwing events.

The US national shot put record for males age 17-18 is 20.43 m / 67' 0½". The US national record for females age 17-18 is 16.41 m / 53' 10¼". And that's with the two sexes throwing very different weights. In high school, males throw a shot that weighs 12 lbs. - females throw a shot that weighs 8.8 lbs.

But as Redmond Sullivan will be at Wagner College in NY next year, Sullivan won't be competing in any CT HS girs' events.

Also, someone on the thread said earlier that Sullivan was planning to join the women's fencing team at Wagner. That might just be what the poster surmised; no source was given.

But tellingly, Sullivan's fencing records posted online show that in the same year he's been competing in girls' shot put and discus in high school sports, in fencing outside of school Sullivan has been competing in the Men's Senior division.

(From what I've read, in fencing Senior is an open division for those 13 and up with no upper age limit. There are more granular divisions for fencers in their pre-teen and early teens that are restricted to youths of one particular age (12, 13, for example). But those gradations wouldn't apply to Sullivan at this point anyways, because as a HS senior soon to graduate, Sullivan is probably at least 18.)

The "vocal minority," as you misrepresent it, is a solid majority.

Only about 10% of Americans strongly support trans participation.

20% somewhat oppose it, and 43% strongly oppose it.

Even Democrats (and I am one) are about split on the issue, and are trending toward opposing it.

With a few more high-profile cases and further education about the science behind sex-based differences and the affects on sports outcomes, even Democrats will be soundly against XY participation in sports for XX humans.

npr.org

Americans are deeply divided on transgender rights, a poll shows

An NPR/Ipsos poll shows a stark partisan split on laws that prevent transgender youth from accessing medical care for gender transition.

Open link

Obviously! That’s why they switch their gender so they can’t handle losing. That’s the whole motive in many cases. Otherwise why would they do it.

You really think someone is suppressing test and pumping themselves full of estrogen to win some track events? That seems like a pretty crazy take from where I am sitting.

"But tellingly, Sullivan's fencing records posted online show that in the same year he's been competing in girls' shot put and discus in high school sports, in fencing outside of school Sullivan has been competing in the Men's Senior division."

Wow, you can't make this stuff up. I wonder what the rules are regarding transgender athletes in fencing.

I have posted this article multiple times. But I will keep doing this until people stop talking about "XX" and "XY" in this context. PLEASE stop doing it. Human sex is not that simple.

https://www.thelancet.com/pdfs/journals/lancet/PIIS0140673605678415.pdf

Fine. Human sex is not simple. But I do think in the context of sports most of these situations are.

Lia Thomas competed in the men's division where, as William Thomas, he was competitive against men. She became dominant against women.

This happened in CT before with Andraya Yearwood and Terry Miller. AMAB or biological boys, they dominated girls track. There wasn't anything that complex about it.

I have no intention of stopping the use of the terms XX and XY.

My intention is to make the argument as simple as possible without offending anyone who identifies as male or female.

It is not a gender issue. We did not create the two universally recognized categories of sports due to gender. We created them to create sports opportunities for people who are, in almost every single case, "XX."

The other chromosome types are rare and can generally be ignored as we address this problem in the broad context.

I'm done with "I can compete with the girls because I'm a girl." The truth is "You are an XY human who identifies as a girl, but who has no place competing with XX humans."

Do you really care this much about one division of girl's discus in Connecticut?

I am not talking about any of those trans athletes.

Are you willing to tell Dr. Martinez Patino "You are not a woman. You should not have been allowed to compete"?

All I am asking is to stop using "XX" and "XY" as if there were only two karyotypes, and every woman has XX and every man has XY. Is that too much to ask?

If YOU happen to belong to a very small minority group, how would you feel that people pretend as if you had never existed on this planet?

Yes.

Because I care about the marginalization of XX humans in every sporting context, everywhere, always.

I care because Kelly Aspras, of Foran High School, is NOT a State Champion. She should be. She earned it.

I care because Allicea Wright, of Hillhouse High School, did NOT score a point in the State Championship, or get to stand on the podium with a medal. She should have. She earned it.

I care because the girls from East Lyme did NOT finish third in the team standings. They should have. They earned it.

Whether you intend or not, you are offending every person with 46XY DSD who identifies as woman. (And many of them have been socially accepted as woman since birth.)

You are shouting very loudly every single time "You are entirely irrelevant because you happen to have rare medical conditions." How would YOU feel if you were treated that way?