My view on Australian athletes and PEDs

Kenyan doping in distance running is similar to the GDR doping program to top Olympic medal tables, except that Kenya's is the outcome of the free market incentive of global marathon prize money (dozens or hundreds of city marathons around the world with a first place winnable by a sub-elite on EPO and enough prize money to make it worthwhile for someone from a country where $10,000 is the equivalent of $1 million in the USA).

The result is actually pretty similar. Hundreds of doped up elite Kenyan marathon runners, just as you had hundreds of doped up East German athletes dominating in multiple sports.

Another crucial difference though is that NOBODY ever said that people born in the GDR had a genetic advantage.

A Coevett by any other name ...

I thought this thread was about one person's view of Australians and their engrained culture of doping and cheating.

But for clarity, you have not expressed my view. My view is:

- It is not a question of EITHER genetics OR cheating. It is also things like ENVIRONMENT and MENTALITY and DIET. You cannot "prove" cheating is effective by attempting to deny genetics -- to get a grade, you actually have to do your homework and pro-actively prove cheating would be effective for these world class athletes for these events.

- PEDs work. The open question is when a substance can rightfully be called a PED. Does a PED even exist, for world class athletes already highly trained at altitude?

- What is the "scale" of "rampant" doping in East Africa? Is it "given"? When did it start?

- A whole decade before EPO, World Cross Country in the 1980s was a good indication that both Ethiopians and Kenyans were both strong (high quality) and deep (high quantity) at world class level.

- If EPO was truly a PED for the marathon, more non-Africans would be running much faster than Steve Jones and Carlos Lopes did in the 1980s.

- East Africans didn't really start participating in large numbers and outperforming in the marathon until after 2000. You have to judge East African performances in the events they were running.

Wrecked.

Coevett, please disguise your "true identity" a little better. So it's an insult to any average IQ.
In the case of Armstrong I'm close to accept that he just hasn't the ability to see how incredibly nonsensical all his posts are.
For you I'm still undecided what part maliciousness has in all your nonsense and what part stupidity.
Kenyan NRs better than Britain's at the end of 1982: 3000m, 10000m, steeple
Kenyan's best positions on the all-time performers list at end 82:
800m: 3
1000m: 5
1500m: 11
1 Mile: 7
3000m: 1
5000m: 2
10000m: 1
steeple: 1
You carefully selected the year and the country for your comparison: Britain after they have rewritten the record books with some of the all-time greats in distance running.
You could have choosen any year from 1968 to 1991 and any country of a pool of something like 180 nations such that Kenya would have a better national record in any track distance event.
Those "few stars" still were able to make Kenya the most successful nation in track distance running in the period 1964 - 1979.
You are the only poster in all of letsrun, who constantly brings genetics in the discussion. It's obvious that genetics are important for physical ability, but it's also obvious that other factors are also important.

Kenyan's have not run the Marathon seriously before 1980.

For sure Australians (and Norwegians, Brits, Germans, US Americans...) are not as innocent as some (very special...) posters want us to believe.

They havent been caught.that doesnt mean theyre not doping......im pretty sure australia is like most wealthier nations,and sweeps most of its positive drug tests under a rug.

Coevett -- do you honestly believe the stats that you collect? Does anyone?

I know in this day and age, many will believe just whatever they read, but do you ever do basic fact-checking, or have you ever survived basic fact checking?

First, you say 8 out of 13, while repeatedly producing lists showing 7 out of 13. From these 7, only 4 involved doping substances/methods, while 2 are whereabouts failures, and 1 is for evasion.

Then you say "over half" of the male Kenyan track team has been suspended for anti-doping violations. Curiously, you include sprinting events like 100/200/400m, which Kenyans do not dominate, and exclude their staple events, the 10000m, steeple, and marathon. When I count the 21 Kenyan male distance athletes (800m and above) at the 2017 WCh, I count 4 busted for doping substance or method, 1 for whereabouts and 1 for evasion -- something quite far from "over half", and something much closer to the estimated global average.

Curiously you repeatedly highlight 800m (including one Botswanan and one whereabouts violation). When you consider that Coe from the 1980s is still ranked #3 all time in the 800m and Cruz is #5 all time, isn't it long past time to dispel the notion that EPO from the 1990s, alone or in combination with any and all other drugs, cannot produce 800m times faster than the 1980s (whether you believe Coe was clean, or on 1980s steroids and blood transfusions)?

40% of all drug busts are Kenyan.