65 in high school (which is about 60 for girls) isn’t enough to perform at a high level to receive a scholarship? Why would a coach want a kid who is doing 80-90 mpw in high school with the possibility of flaming out or peaking early?
I mean, if I were the coach, I would want the 9:10-15 kid doing 55 mpw over the sub-9 kid doing 80. More potential. But that’s just me.
Why would bet on potential versus proven ability? If Lex Young is running 120mpw does it matter?
Unless you believe that hard training early limits potential(there is basically no evidence for this) versus letting you hit your potential early, it is better to go early...
Look, I get it. I hear you. But I’m from the Jay Johnson school of gradual, but steady progression.
If I were a coach, I would take the sub-8:50 kid who is running 70 mpw over the top kid in the nation at 120. But, that’s just me. I would prefer a kid who still has untapped potential that I can help achieve but who has also shown some durability. 70 mpw is plenty.
I guess the person writing the thread is an american. Most americans are unaware that the rest of the world uses sensible, logical units of measurement.
The Metric System is useful for cultures that had never measured anything prior to it's popularization. It is unnecessary for cultures that had measured things long before it was invented. Ditto in the case of literacy. Written language is seen as a game-changer if you have been unaware of it. If you've been writing your whole life, you will be unimpressed when some random country somewhere suddenly comes up with the idea.
Hard to find a European runner who knows what a mile is. In a room of 10-20 European middle and long distance athletes a few will guess a mile to within 50m and one may actually know.
US records for 1000, 2000, 3000, 5000 all held by moderate mileage athletes. Lagat never tried a serious 10000 in top form but was undoubtedly capable of <27. Put spring plates in his shoes he goes < 26:45 at least and probably <60 for a half marathon.
Above 5000m the US records are traditionally held by the fastest 3000m runner who focuses on racing longer, usually but not always doing added mileage. This is the case going back 60 years at least.
Mileage alone though does not tell you much. If it did the US would have a fleet of <60' half marathoners and <2:06 marathoners.
Such a gradual progression isn’t necessary and would reduce the possibility of receiving a scholarship. Even in early HS, distance running is not a leisure sport.
65 in high school (which is about 60 for girls) isn’t enough to perform at a high level to receive a scholarship? Why would a coach want a kid who is doing 80-90 mpw in high school with the possibility of flaming out or peaking early?
I mean, if I were the coach, I would want the 9:10-15 kid doing 55 mpw over the sub-9 kid doing 80. More potential. But that’s just me.
The 9:10-15 kid is not getting a scholarship. The other thing is if he is only running 55 mpw, he might not have it in him to put more effort into it when he goes to college.
LRC continues to be anti-high mileage until college. Jakob has been doing high mileage since early middle school. Mention that a US kid is doing that and the doomsayers predict instant burnout.
It's more accurate to say that Jakob has steadily built up to high mileage since middle school. If most runners start in HS at ~35 mpw, I think it's fair to say that it isn't a good idea for them to start running 100mpw 2 years later.
That's exactly what I did. It was a real good idea.
There was a podcast where Sam Tanner after running 3:31 told Jakob he ran about 50-60 miles a week. Jakob told Tanner he must be one of the most talented guys on the circuit. Jakob also said he didn't take breaks between seasons, just ran a week of 10k runs.
I think Jakob may be a a bit biased towards assuming everyone is like him and needs high mileage to succeed. Jakob may also assume he isn't talented because he succeeds off such high mileage.
Running high mileage is a talent itself, we know not everyone can do it even if they try to.
65 in high school (which is about 60 for girls) isn’t enough to perform at a high level to receive a scholarship? Why would a coach want a kid who is doing 80-90 mpw in high school with the possibility of flaming out or peaking early?
I mean, if I were the coach, I would want the 9:10-15 kid doing 55 mpw over the sub-9 kid doing 80. More potential. But that’s just me.
The 9:10-15 kid is not getting a scholarship. The other thing is if he is only running 55 mpw, he might not have it in him to put more effort into it when he goes to college.
Do people actually believe that a 9:10 kid can’t get a scholarship? I feel sorry for you and your very limited world if you actually believe that. There are kids running 9:45 getting athletic scholarships.
Hard to find a European runner who knows what a mile is. In a room of 10-20 European middle and long distance athletes a few will guess a mile to within 50m and one may actually know.
US records for 1000, 2000, 3000, 5000 all held by moderate mileage athletes. Lagat never tried a serious 10000 in top form but was undoubtedly capable of <27. Put spring plates in his shoes he goes < 26:45 at least and probably <60 for a half marathon.
Above 5000m the US records are traditionally held by the fastest 3000m runner who focuses on racing longer, usually but not always doing added mileage. This is the case going back 60 years at least.
Mileage alone though does not tell you much. If it did the US would have a fleet of <60' half marathoners and <2:06 marathoners.
Out of 10-20 European middle and long distance runners, 1 may know what a mile is? Yeah, I don't think so.
Oh and last time I checked, US records for the 3000m and the 5000m were held by Grant Fisher, who runs 100 miles a week consistently on the badger miles system (which is really 110-120). How exactly is that moderate mileage?
It's true that mileage alone doesn't mean much. But most of the <60' half marathoners and <2.06 marathoners are running high mileage. It's just the by-product of good training.
Why would bet on potential versus proven ability? If Lex Young is running 120mpw does it matter?
Unless you believe that hard training early limits potential(there is basically no evidence for this) versus letting you hit your potential early, it is better to go early...
Look, I get it. I hear you. But I’m from the Jay Johnson school of gradual, but steady progression.
If I were a coach, I would take the sub-8:50 kid who is running 70 mpw over the top kid in the nation at 120. But, that’s just me. I would prefer a kid who still has untapped potential that I can help achieve but who has also shown some durability. 70 mpw is plenty.
That is ego. Turning down the 4:00/8:30 runner so you can get a 4:10/8:50u guy and turn him into a 4:00/8:30 guy over 3+ years after you tap his potential isn't helping your team to win.
I totally get wanting the Brian Sell/Pat porter guy so that you can talk about turning a 10:00 guy into an Olympian.
Now there are a lot more complex case. Take a hocker running 35mpw and winning nationals champs over the kid running 5s faster on probably 2x the mileage. Sure. Take the kid who has gone 5-4:40-4:15 over the 4:20->4:15->4:10 kid? Sure.
But if you have the same kid and he has the choice of to be something like
20mpw 10:00
40 mpw 9:30
60mpw 9:10
80mpw 9:00
You should be happier getting the 80mpw version. His talent hasn't changed. But he has shown the ability to handle mileage. The 60mpw version might break down when the mileage is upped.
Granted none of us can measure talent and improvement that accurately. Maybe you 60mpw guy drops 20s off the higher mileage. Maybe he does 5.
Look, I get it. I hear you. But I’m from the Jay Johnson school of gradual, but steady progression.
If I were a coach, I would take the sub-8:50 kid who is running 70 mpw over the top kid in the nation at 120. But, that’s just me. I would prefer a kid who still has untapped potential that I can help achieve but who has also shown some durability. 70 mpw is plenty.
That is ego. Turning down the 4:00/8:30 runner so you can get a 4:10/8:50u guy and turn him into a 4:00/8:30 guy over 3+ years after you tap his potential isn't helping your team to win.
I totally get wanting the Brian Sell/Pat porter guy so that you can talk about turning a 10:00 guy into an Olympian.
Now there are a lot more complex case. Take a hocker running 35mpw and winning nationals champs over the kid running 5s faster on probably 2x the mileage. Sure. Take the kid who has gone 5-4:40-4:15 over the 4:20->4:15->4:10 kid? Sure.
But if you have the same kid and he has the choice of to be something like
20mpw 10:00
40 mpw 9:30
60mpw 9:10
80mpw 9:00
You should be happier getting the 80mpw version. His talent hasn't changed. But he has shown the ability to handle mileage. The 60mpw version might break down when the mileage is upped.
Granted none of us can measure talent and improvement that accurately. Maybe you 60mpw guy drops 20s off the higher mileage. Maybe he does 5.
I think it was good for Jakob that he could focus on 2020 and 2024 olympics from he was 13 rather than risk to be run to the ground or whatever from a coach wanting to win some state title or team nationals or whatever.
The 9:10-15 kid is not getting a scholarship. The other thing is if he is only running 55 mpw, he might not have it in him to put more effort into it when he goes to college.
Do people actually believe that a 9:10 kid can’t get a scholarship? I feel sorry for you and your very limited world if you actually believe that. There are kids running 9:45 getting athletic scholarships.
What school is giving scholarships to 9:45 guys? Even the lazy 9:10 kid isn’t receiving a scholarship to a school in the PAC-12(?).
I think it's pretty clear it's km he's referring to. But he does repeatedly use the word "mileage" which could be a little confusing to the easily confused.
Really interesting (in a "not actually all that interesting" way) that the word "kilometrage" never took off.
Do people actually believe that a 9:10 kid can’t get a scholarship? I feel sorry for you and your very limited world if you actually believe that. There are kids running 9:45 getting athletic scholarships.
What school is giving scholarships to 9:45 guys? Even the lazy 9:10 kid isn’t receiving a scholarship to a school in the PAC-12(?).
I don’t think you know many people running in college.
What school is giving scholarships to 9:45 guys? Even the lazy 9:10 kid isn’t receiving a scholarship to a school in the PAC-12(?).
I don’t think you know many people running in college.
I coach in a mid to low level D1 conference. Here are our rough standards:
To walk-on : 1:57, 4:30, 9:40
Partial scholarship 1:54, 4:20, 9:20
Full scholarship: 1:51, 4:10, 9:05
Obviously a pac-12 coach's standards are going to be way higher than that.
I always laugh when I here LetsRun experts and most high school coaches, say "keep mileage low in high school so you don't burn out will develop more in college (because you are out of shape in high school doing 45 mpw). Very bad advice, because 95% of 800-2M kids can't even walk onto a D1 school, forget about getting a scholarship because they listened to that terrible advice.
I recommend to high school runners that they ignore the experts and high school coaches and listen to Jacob and "Run a lot" if you want to run in college at the D1 level.
I always laugh when I here LetsRun experts and most high school coaches, say "keep mileage low in high school so you don't burn out will develop more in college (because you are out of shape in high school doing 45 mpw). Very bad advice, because 95% of 800-2M kids can't even walk onto a D1 school, forget about getting a scholarship because they listened to that terrible advice.
I recommend to high school runners that they ignore the experts and high school coaches and listen to Jacob and "Run a lot" if you want to run in college at the D1 level.
in other sports, kids are encouraged to train hard and play as much as they can to acquire the skills and basic fundamentals of their sport at a young age, but in running letsrun armcoaches say its wrong to run a lot but multiple world champ, olympic champion jakob ingebrogsten says otherwise
I always laugh when I here LetsRun experts and most high school coaches, say "keep mileage low in high school so you don't burn out will develop more in college (because you are out of shape in high school doing 45 mpw). Very bad advice, because 95% of 800-2M kids can't even walk onto a D1 school, forget about getting a scholarship because they listened to that terrible advice.
I recommend to high school runners that they ignore the experts and high school coaches and listen to Jacob and "Run a lot" if you want to run in college at the D1 level.
in other sports, kids are encouraged to train hard and play as much as they can to acquire the skills and basic fundamentals of their sport at a young age, but in running letsrun armcoaches say its wrong to run a lot but multiple world champ, olympic champion jakob ingebrogsten says otherwise
I don’t think you know many people running in college.
I coach in a mid to low level D1 conference. Here are our rough standards:
To walk-on : 1:57, 4:30, 9:40
Partial scholarship 1:54, 4:20, 9:20
Full scholarship: 1:51, 4:10, 9:05
Obviously a pac-12 coach's standards are going to be way higher than that.
I always laugh when I here LetsRun experts and most high school coaches, say "keep mileage low in high school so you don't burn out will develop more in college (because you are out of shape in high school doing 45 mpw). Very bad advice, because 95% of 800-2M kids can't even walk onto a D1 school, forget about getting a scholarship because they listened to that terrible advice.
I recommend to high school runners that they ignore the experts and high school coaches and listen to Jacob and "Run a lot" if you want to run in college at the D1 level.
This is pretty close to on. I ran 9:30 for 3200m in a tough state to run fast, performed well nationally, accepted a full scholarship to mid level D1 conference, non-P5 solely because I ran 9:30/15:10 on 20-30 miles/week. My college coach worked with me, built up to 90 miles my junior year and 110 miles my senior year summers and earned All-American honors at the end of it in XC. Most of the guys on my team on scholarship were 9:10-9:40 guys and even today's roster not much has changed since they are not great. Mid-20s at NCAA Region XC.
Hard to find a European runner who knows what a mile is. In a room of 10-20 European middle and long distance athletes a few will guess a mile to within 50m and one may actually know.
Above 5000m the US records are traditionally held by the fastest 3000m runner who focuses on racing longer, usually but not always doing added mileage. This is the case going back 60 years at least.
Mileage alone though does not tell you much. If it did the US would have a fleet of <60' half marathoners and <2:06 marathoners.
You think European runners don't know that a mile is a hair more than four laps of an outdoor track? Did you forget that the British are Europeans and still measure distances in miles? And the Japanese do in fact have a fleet of runners doing lots more miles than the US has and a corresponding fleet of the half marathoners and marathoners you describe.
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