Are you discounting Lagat and Chelimo for being born abroad?
You do realize that Shorter & Salazar were also born abroad, right?
No - but developed “abroad”? Absoloutly! Take away Lagat & Chelimo (and others) and the US is not as much the distance power we perceive it to be. There are a lot of East Africans in the US record books. Imagine Ryan Crouser suddenly changing allegiance and competing for Kenya. Putting all their throwing records into the stratosphere. How silly would that be? He is as Kenyan as a 4th of July parade. It’s the same thing!
I don’t think that would be the same thing. Lagat has lived in the US since 1996, when he was 21/22, and he went to college at Washington State. Even though he represented Kenya at the start of his professional career, he developed into a great runner while living and training in the US. Similarly, Chelimo moved to the US in 2010 at age 19/20 to run in college, and he developed into a great runner in the US.
Yes, agreed, they came here to run. They were strong prospects when they arrived, but also young and not fully developed. They reached the next level while in the US training with American coaches.
He's so damn good and has been for so long. Absolute workhorse and committed to the sport. Thoughts? He seems on track to dethrone Galen once he hits the roads, no disrespect to Galen.
He's so damn good and has been for so long. Absolute workhorse and committed to the sport. Thoughts? He seems on track to dethrone Galen once he hits the roads, no disrespect to Galen.
How is one even to know? By what criteria? With the super shoes it is going to be more difficult to determine what is often a rather subjective endeavor already. Grant Fisher may get busted or injured before he can do enough to be in the conversation for best American all time. He is not close yet and he is already 25. The odds are against him.
How is one even to know? By what criteria? With the super shoes it is going to be more difficult to determine what is often a rather subjective endeavor already. Grant Fisher may get busted or injured before he can do enough to be in the conversation for best American all time. He is not close yet and he is already 25. The odds are against him.
He may get injured or something before he can do enough to become the goat, but "he seems on track" means that if things keep going the way they've been going (big improvements every year), then he'll be the goat.
25 was younger than Rupp or Lagat were when they won their first medal. The odds are against him because the odds are against anyone trying to be the goat, but from his results the past 2 years, he has better odds than anyone else in the country.
How is one even to know? By what criteria? With the super shoes it is going to be more difficult to determine what is often a rather subjective endeavor already. Grant Fisher may get busted or injured before he can do enough to be in the conversation for best American all time. He is not close yet and he is already 25. The odds are against him.
He may get injured or something before he can do enough to become the goat, but "he seems on track" means that if things keep going the way they've been going (big improvements every year), then he'll be the goat.
25 was younger than Rupp or Lagat were when they won their first medal. The odds are against him because the odds are against anyone trying to be the goat, but from his results the past 2 years, he has better odds than anyone else in the country.
Of course big improvements every year are suspicious as hell and then of course he will plateau. The plateau usually happens right when the fanboys (not saying you are one) least expect it. So yeah to say he is on track to be the greatest American distance runner ever is fairly meaningless as guys like Salazar, Kennedy, Ritz, Solinsky, and Webb arguably were too.
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A good act does not wash out the bad, nor a bad act the good
Of course big improvements every year are suspicious as hell and then of course he will plateau. The plateau usually happens right when the fanboys (not saying you are one) least expect it. So yeah to say he is on track to be the greatest American distance runner ever is fairly meaningless as guys like Salazar, Kennedy, Ritz, Solinsky, and Webb arguably were too.
Big improvements may be suspicious, but every great runner has them. At least with Fisher, you have someone who ran sub-4 in HS on low mileage, won FL twice, was an NCAA champ as a sophomore + a bunch of AAs. There's a pretty consistent progression there. Rupp jumped from 27:10 to 26:48 in a year. He ran 26:44 2 years later. Did he plateau? Maybe, but plateauing at that level leaves you in contention for medals. If Fisher plateaus now, he's still in medal contention.
All the guys you mentioned were on track, but none of those guys had the same kind of success that Fisher has. In 4 global appearances, he's placed 4th, 5th, 6th, and 9th. He had a breakout year running ARs in the 5k and 10k. The last guy with a similar trajectory to Fisher was Rupp. High school phenom, top collegiate runner, heck, they even both broke 27 at age 25. Rupp went on to get silver at 26. We can't know if Fisher will get better, but I think most people are expecting it. If he does get better, there's a good chance he becomes the goat.
Of course big improvements every year are suspicious as hell and then of course he will plateau. The plateau usually happens right when the fanboys (not saying you are one) least expect it. So yeah to say he is on track to be the greatest American distance runner ever is fairly meaningless as guys like Salazar, Kennedy, Ritz, Solinsky, and Webb arguably were too.
Big improvements may be suspicious, but every great runner has them. At least with Fisher, you have someone who ran sub-4 in HS on low mileage, won FL twice, was an NCAA champ as a sophomore + a bunch of AAs. There's a pretty consistent progression there. Rupp jumped from 27:10 to 26:48 in a year. He ran 26:44 2 years later. Did he plateau? Maybe, but plateauing at that level leaves you in contention for medals. If Fisher plateaus now, he's still in medal contention.
All the guys you mentioned were on track, but none of those guys had the same kind of success that Fisher has. In 4 global appearances, he's placed 4th, 5th, 6th, and 9th. He had a breakout year running ARs in the 5k and 10k. The last guy with a similar trajectory to Fisher was Rupp. High school phenom, top collegiate runner, heck, they even both broke 27 at age 25. Rupp went on to get silver at 26. We can't know if Fisher will get better, but I think most people are expecting it. If he does get better, there's a good chance he becomes the goat.
Of course the global championships have been WEAK. That is not Fisher’s fault of course but they have been really weak fields.
He's so damn good and has been for so long. Absolute workhorse and committed to the sport. Thoughts? He seems on track to dethrone Galen once he hits the roads, no disrespect to Galen.
Best American distance runner ever.....hell No.
Fisher is well on his way.
Hope he keeps progressing with more records and winning medals.
He's so damn good and has been for so long. Absolute workhorse and committed to the sport. Thoughts? He seems on track to dethrone Galen once he hits the roads, no disrespect to Galen.
How is one even to know? By what criteria? With the super shoes it is going to be more difficult to determine what is often a rather subjective endeavor already. Grant Fisher may get busted or injured before he can do enough to be in the conversation for best American all time. He is not close yet and he is already 25. The odds are against him.
Once again, so kind of Yooou to write negative zingers about Grant Fisher. Crawl back into you hole and wallow in your own misery.
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A good act does not wash out the bad, nor a bad act the good
Of course the global championships have been WEAK. That is not Fisher’s fault of course but they have been really weak fields.
In what world are today's fields weak compared to the past? Cheptegei, Beraga, Kiplimo, Jakob, and Kejelcha make these fields some of the strongest ever. If you wanna discredit Fisher's place because the fields are weak, I hope you're ready to discredit a whole lotta people from the 60s and 70s.
Of course the global championships have been WEAK. That is not Fisher’s fault of course but they have been really weak fields.
In what world are today's fields weak compared to the past? Cheptegei, Beraga, Kiplimo, Jakob, and Kejelcha make these fields some of the strongest ever. If you wanna discredit Fisher's place because the fields are weak, I hope you're ready to discredit a whole lotta people from the 60s and 70s.
Extraordinarily weak of course. The Kenyans seem to not even care anymore about the track distance events. It has been so weak that even Ingebrigtsen who is not remarkable is winning a gold at 5000m.
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A good act does not wash out the bad, nor a bad act the good
You do realize that Shorter & Salazar were also born abroad, right?
You do realize that Shorter was born in Munich while his father was a doctor in the US military, right? He was an infant who returned to the US as a toddler long before he ever even thought about running.
The same goes for Al Sal. He left Cuba with his family when very young and before he ever had a thought about running.
I'm surprised no one has mentioned Steve Prefontaine. It's true he never won any international medals, but he dominated the American track and cross country scene for a number of years. He was consistently at the top until his untimely death.