depends. among elite but not elite elite jobs (most IB, FAANG, etc) Williams places nearly as well as the T5. but there are some jobs (mainly late stage startups and HFT firms) that primarily recruit from ~10 colleges, but Williams (and Amherst) are in the tier slightly below them - basically, the school name alone won't cause you to be rejected, but it won't cause you to get an interview either (assuming good GPA, good projects / prior internships, etc)
Thank you for responding and giving an honest answer. And as a father, I think its great that you are concerned about your parents spending so much money on a degree. That being said, if you truly want a great liberal arts education and a strong running program, the Nescacs are about as good as it gets. I've met a lot of Eph runners over the years, and not one has regretted going that route. Williams in particular has an incredibly high alumni satisfaction level. If you haven't already, you really should reach out to one or two of the rising sophomores on the team. They would be best equipped to answer your questions. The rosters are posted and I'm sure you can find them on social media. Just introduce yourself and say you are interested in the program and wanted to ask some questions. I'm willing to bet they will be happy to assist in any way they can and tell you their experiences at the school and wether its worth the cost. Good luck to you!
I appreciate your advice. Finding information on this has been difficult and you’ve been very helpful. Thank you.
I know a few of the current runners there. One is a female sprinter who scored in the mid 13xx's on the SAT. The other two I know are male distance runners that went to prestigious hs's(Aidan Ryan is one of them even though he graduated). Im sure they scored very high but Aidan committed before he kinda broke out and ran d1 caliber times as a senior. His high school is like the best school in NYC as well public or private. The other one didn't have a great of times that u have. I think his junior year he ran 4:35/9:30 but he didn't get a senior outdoor season due to covid. My guess is that you may need to up the SAT a bit to the 1300 range but otherwise you should be ok.
Also just something to think about but my friend literally had the same exact PR's as a junior and another one was slightly slower. Both ended up going D1, one of which is a P5
Also just something to think about but my friend literally had the same exact PR's as a junior and another one was slightly slower. Both ended up going D1, one of which is a P5
I agree that the poster's times are strong enough for D1, but if he wants good academics, once you get past the Ivies, there really isn't much that compares to the small liberal arts colleges like Williams. And the Ivies don't offer any scholarships so they are basically in the same boat as D3. Hence why there is a lot of talent at Williams. You mentioned Aidan Ryan who was a 4:17/9:09 guy in HS. But they also have Lindgren (4:16/9:17), and Tuohy (4:12/8:58) and this year they got Denatale (who coincidentally went to the same HS as Ryan) who was a 4:20/9:02 as a junior and then ran an insane 9:01 3000 steeple at NB nationals to come in second. I'm sure Tuohy and Denatale had a ton of D1 offers, and yet they both chose Williams for a reason. If this guy wants to know why Williams is special, I would start with those two.
Also just something to think about but my friend literally had the same exact PR's as a junior and another one was slightly slower. Both ended up going D1, one of which is a P5
If it isn't too much trouble, how is your friend that went P5 doing? I'm not looking for any personal information. I'd just like to know if they continued to develop and what their experience was there.
For you maybe. William Williams and I are rich. His parents even named him after the school. He's probably a legacy and went to some private east coast prep school like Exeter.
Wondering what sort of times Williams college would recruit. I’m a junior and ran 4:20, 1:55 last season, would that qualify for some heavy admission help. Academically I’m strong and take the hardest classes available and I’m ranked in the top 10% of my school. Also SAT is kinda mid with a 12xx yes I emailed the coaches already just want let’s runs opinion.
Thanks!
I would say you have a decent shot but I question your intelligence if you'd rather ask letsrun over emailing the coach about this.
Whats this a list of? The schools you didn't get into? Northwestern doesn't have any running program, and USC only has track, no XC. Try to do a little research before just throwing out a list from US News.
And you missed my point. Williams is a 2000 person school, with no greek life, located in the middle of nowhere, with class sizes as small as 2 people and a professor. If you think Michigan or USC provides the same experience, you didn't sit through 400 person lecture halls during your college experience. And that doesn't even take into account that Williams is a Liberal Arts college. The way it approaches its curriculum is so different than large state schools. Thats not to say that Michigan and Vandy are bad schools. Far from it. But if someone wants what Williams has to offer, there really is nothing else like it besides schools like the Nescac or Pomona.
Whats this a list of? The schools you didn't get into? Northwestern doesn't have any running program, and USC only has track, no XC. Try to do a little research before just throwing out a list from US News.
And you missed my point. Williams is a 2000 person school, with no greek life, located in the middle of nowhere, with class sizes as small as 2 people and a professor. If you think Michigan or USC provides the same experience, you didn't sit through 400 person lecture halls during your college experience. And that doesn't even take into account that Williams is a Liberal Arts college. The way it approaches its curriculum is so different than large state schools. Thats not to say that Michigan and Vandy are bad schools. Far from it. But if someone wants what Williams has to offer, there really is nothing else like it besides schools like the Nescac or Pomona.
... or Kenyon, Oberlin, Centre, Sewanee, W&L, Rhodes, ...
My daughter is attending Northwestern next year so I probably know a bit more about it than you do.
Congrats, its a great school. You should be very proud. But I wonder what it is that you think you know? That Northwestern only has a girls XC program and no track team? That they haven't had a men's XC or track program since 1987? What am I missing? The original poster is a male? How would Northwestern have any relevance to him?
I think the response was pointing out some top D1 schools outside of the Ivies. It sort of sounded like you or someone told the OP that there weren't top tier D1 schools irrespective of running programs. Maybe that wasn't the intent. I don't think the OP has the test scores to get into an elite school anyway. His best bet is probably to attend his state school.
I don't disagree that there are academically solid D1 programs outside the Ivies. I would argue against some that he included in his list, but certainly Northwestern, Rice, Stanford, Duke, etc. are all very strong schools. But this is Lets Run. Its about running, and if I didn't make my point, I apologize and I'll state it clearer. There are very few opportunities for competitive male runners to receive a top tier liberal arts education and be part of a storied running program outside the Nescac and a few others. I will agree that schools like Stanford, Harvard and Princeton are all exceptional schools with amazing running programs. But I would also argue that the poster most likely couldn't get into these schools academically, not is he fast enough to run there, so they aren't really pertinent. And honestly, none of them are Liberal Arts focused either.
As for wether he can make it at Williams, I think thats been thoroughly discussed. Now its up to him to reach out to the coaches to find out.
And I will apologize slightly in that it does appear that the women's XC program occasionally competes in track meets. Its not listed on their athletics page so I don't know if they are officially an NCAA sanctioned program or just do it as a club, and they only race distance without sprints or field events, so its not really a track team. But in the end, they are running, so thats a positive. But as of now, there is no men's program, nor plans to restart it, so my original statement holds true that Northwestern is not an option for a male looking to run.
Can't speak to NESCAC, but I know for a fact that a lot of similar schools to Williams don't factor in athletics at all into admission standards. Within the UAA, Carnegie Mellon, NYU, and UC don't, at all. WashU and Emory do, a very slight amount.
So I'd generally expect Williams to be similar, and care a lot more about your academics than your mile.
In the past, CMU most definitely did. I did not go there, but was accepted with way lower standards.
Yes, at one point gas was $0.29 a gallon as well. You used to say, "Gimme some gas for three onions!", onions being a slang word us scallywags and hoopie-de-hoos used for dimes.
Isn't it an amazing, rich tapestry, this historic and fast-moving modern world of ours?
The game of admissions at elite D3 schools is a bit different than most D1’s. For starters, you almost have to apply ED to have a real shot of getting in. Of Williams 550 person class of 2026, 255 were admitted early decision. That’s 46% of the entire class that was already chosen before XC season is even over. Also, acceptance rates during ED were 31% while acceptance rates during regular were about 5%. What does that mean for athletes? Coaches expect to fill their rosters during the summer before senior year so the students can apply and get accepted in the ED round. Therefore, times during junior year carry more weight, and getting pre reads done is important. Most of these schools have only 3 or 4 spots in a given year, and they want to lock these kids in before they have a chance to look elsewhere or get more appealing offers. The power is all on the college's side. In many cases the recruiting classes are already set by sept/oct, and if you don’t apply ED, your only hope is that one of the chosen recruits doesn’t make it in or bails for an Ivy leaving a spot open. That doesn’t mean if you run a 4 minute mile and have a 1600 SAT that you won’t get in during regular decision, but your chances are just so much lower statistically if you wait. Its not a fair system, and it forces students who want to attend these colleges into making difficult decisions that much earlier in the process, but understanding the game can at least give you a fighting chance of getting in.
Some of you didn't believe that he could have to pay full price and wouldn't be happy about it. Sounds like that discussion was beneficial. Easy for you to tell a 17 year old that $320K is worth it. Imagine if he can instead get a full ride at a other school. He then starts life with $320K in the bank. Bet you $100 that he is way financially ahead of the Williams grad 10 years later if chooses that path. You are likely somebody who supports forgiving student loan debt also because school is expensive and life isn't fair.
Bull.
FAANG isn't hiring some kid who graduated from Minnesota. SIG and Jane Street aren't doing on-campus recruiting at Penn State. McKinsey and KKR aren't pulling from Utah.
Second job, third job, yeah, maybe. But by then you're at least five or six years behind the compounding value of RSUs, higher salary, and so on.
It really depends on what you want to do, but there is absolutely and 100% elitism regarding colleges for truly high-end jobs, and to argue that there isn't just because you've got a soft-spot for whatever land-grant FOOOTBAWWWWWWWL university you went to is disingenuous at best and stupid at worst.
I think the response was pointing out some top D1 schools outside of the Ivies. It sort of sounded like you or someone told the OP that there weren't top tier D1 schools irrespective of running programs. Maybe that wasn't the intent. I don't think the OP has the test scores to get into an elite school anyway. His best bet is probably to attend his state school.
Yeah, but so what? Just because Stanford is also a good school doesn't make it similar to Williams in any shape or form, just like carmine9 might be a human being but it doesn't mean he's not a cross-burning moron.