Wondering what sort of times Williams college would recruit. I’m a junior and ran 4:20, 1:55 last season, would that qualify for some heavy admission help. Academically I’m strong and take the hardest classes available and I’m ranked in the top 10% of my school. Also SAT is kinda mid with a 12xx yes I emailed the coaches already just want let’s runs opinion.
That's pretty fast for that level. Probably should get an admissions nudge if the coach likes you. Those nudges aren't huge, but given what else you've reported, I'd guess you'd have a decent shot at admissions if you wrote a good essay.
My impression is yes! I was in contact with the coach with a 3200 of about 9:40 a few years ago (SATs around 2300, school didn’t rank). Your times are definitely better, and I got the impression I would have support if I wanted to apply ED, but I hedged my options and applied regular.
Luckily, that worked out for me because I got into most of the schools I was softly recruited for (top D3) and some of the schools I was not (Ivies, Stanford). I felt very tempted to just pick a school in the early period, but I’m obviously glad I didn’t in the end. It was never clear to me what extent I was supported in the regular admissions period, so that might be a good question to ask if you decide to go that route.
Are you sure you want to go to Williams? I liked their coach, and the program felt really strong, but I'm not sure if I could handle that kind of splendid isolation. I would definitely reach out to some of the other top D3s. I really liked Pomona and Claremont McKenna in SoCal, and Haverford, as well as Bowdoin. I’m not an expert in how things are going now, but it might also be worth reaching out to the Ivies if you are interested in any of them to see if you might stack up. 9:20/4:20 were basically the marks that were communicated to me if I wanted admissions help.
There are a lot of factors at play with Nescac recruiting. In fact there are books written about it (literally). The Williams 2020 class was 7 runners, while the 2021 recruiting class only had 4 guys, and this year's class was 6. The girls team was the opposite. The Nescac's only have so many slots so they have to move them around. If you are on a low year, that just means there are going to be less slots, and they might very well go to the ED commits. There is also a difference between slots and nudges, and each of the schools in the Nescac treat those a little differently. If you want some idea of what the coaches are looking for, check out this year's group. Their 1600M times range from 4:16-4:25 and the 3200's are 9:02-9:30. Amherst and Middlebury are similar. I will also say that all 3 of those schools value academics and you really should talk to the coaches now about your interest. You will know pretty quickly if they want you, and will offer you a pre read after your junior year if they do. During the pre read, the admissions liaison might come back and say you need another 100 points on your SAT, or another AP class, or something, or they will say you are good. But these pre reads are going on right now for rising seniors. In fact, in a lot of cases they have already made support commitments to 1 or 2 runners to try to lock them in. I don't know if you are going into your junior year or going into your senior, but its never too early to start.
You also may try reaching out to some of the current Williams runners and asking them. I'm sure you can find them on social media, and most of the runners in the Nescac will be very supportive and happy to answer your questions if you IM them.
One more thing- definitely try to take a visit to the school and see it in person. As some have mentioned, it is remote, but a lot of people like that. Its bucolic and beautiful, but there isn't much night life. If you like the outdoors, varied training terrain, hiking, skiing, camping, etc. then Williamstown is awesome. If you want a bigger city, then tufts might be more your scene. To each their own, but schedule a visit and decide for yourself. Talk to the runners and even see if you can join them for a run.
Can't speak to NESCAC, but I know for a fact that a lot of similar schools to Williams don't factor in athletics at all into admission standards. Within the UAA, Carnegie Mellon, NYU, and UC don't, at all. WashU and Emory do, a very slight amount.
So I'd generally expect Williams to be similar, and care a lot more about your academics than your mile.
Can't speak to NESCAC, but I know for a fact that a lot of similar schools to Williams don't factor in athletics at all into admission standards. Within the UAA, Carnegie Mellon, NYU, and UC don't, at all. WashU and Emory do, a very slight amount.
So I'd generally expect Williams to be similar, and care a lot more about your academics than your mile.
Which is also a roundabout way of saying if Williams is the right school for you academically and where you want to go in your career, great. It's a solid choice. But absolutely, 100% do not pay even the slightest amount of consideration to the track team in your decision making; it should the lowest of your priorities.
That's not entirely true. Williams (and all Nescac Schools) do care about athletics and do allow it to factor into admission considerations. Although it is one of many factors that is considered. If I'm being 100% honest with the OP, I'd say that 1:55, 4:20 are decent times, but basically those fall into the average range of the recruiting class that Williams typically gets. I would assume the coaches will be interested, but they usually get 1 or 2 sub 4:15/9:00 guys looking at the school every year. To Karen's point, it doesn't matter how fast you are, you still need to be academically viable at these schools. Hence the pre read that someone mentioned above. Admissions will be looking at your GPA, how hard your class schedule was, # of AP's, extra curriculars, and your SAT. Great times allow you to be slightly deficient in one of those, but fall too far below the norms, and it won't matter how fast you are. There are certain highly academic schools (most notably Stanford and even a few Ivies) that will be more flexible, but the Nescac's require good grades and good times. It sounds like the OP has a solid GPA and class rank, but the SAT score is pretty low. It is true that many school have gone test optional, but I don't believe that has filtered down to athletics yet. At least not the last few years. So they may still require SAT scores in the pre read. Williams students typically fall within the range of 1400-1550. The OP's 12XX is definitely on the low side and would need to be higher unless he has another unique factor that admissions may find attractive. I found that most coaches are pretty honest. Reach out and talk to them and they will say if you are fast enough and your grades are good enough. In the end, they really don't want to waste your time (or their's) if it's not a good fit. Their responses will be far better than anything you will get on Lets Run.
If you are really serious about Williams, then you need to reach out to the coaches again and see if they respond. If they aren't interested in giving you a pre read, then you probably have your answer.
Can anyone comment on comparable girls distance recruiting times at Williams? What's average for a a recruit vs what's amazing in distances from 800 - xc/5k. Thanks.
1:55/4:20 as a junior means that you might be a 1:52-53-4:12 guy going into college, which would put you very high actually at Williams, because if you're looking at the hs stats of the current guys there, you're looking at what they did as seniors, not juniors. 1200 something might have been enough with good times to get in in the 1980s and 1990s before ETS raised the mean (bumped up scores about 120-150 points) but I don't think it's good enough now, so study hard for the SAT this fall. Improve in xc and throw down some good indoor times this year and you may be D1 anyway.
If you are looking at a school like Williams, there are very few D1 Colleges that would really be comparable. Not from a track time standpoint, but rather academically. Certainly the Ivies, Stanford and Duke but very few of those would match up with regards to class size, location, etc. If you want an academically rigorous curriculum, at a smaller school, in a rural environment, with great outdoor recreational opportunities, and still be in a top notch running program, there really isn't too much that compares to Williams at the D1 level. Some of the other Nescacs and Pomona would come to mind, but even something like MIT, John's Hopkins, or U of Chicago are all in big cities. It just boils down to what's important to people. If I can offer any advice to the OP, it would be to choose the school that's right for you. Not the best running team or the one that gives you the most money. Coaches leave, teammates graduate, and cultures change. So figure out the things that matter most to you, and find the college that meets that.
Can anyone comment on comparable girls distance recruiting times at Williams? What's average for a a recruit vs what's amazing in distances from 800 - xc/5k. Thanks.
The girls are't quite as strong as the boys, but based on last year's class, I would say 2:18, 5:05, 11:00, and 18:30 are basically the average for their recruits. Obviously "amazing" would be better than that.
If I had attended Williams (applied, was accepted, but didn't go), I would have run there - let me share my thoughts.
First, I'm not sure who the new coach will be. Farwell was a very good coach, so I assume his successor will be good, but you can never be sure.
Next, your times were better than mine, but I had stronger academics as well. I only ended up running a high 4:20s / mid 9:30s my junior year, but I was only able to race a couple of times due to a stress fracture, but I had a mid 1500's SAT which is higher (I also had a better XC season as well, multiple sub 16's on challenging courses). You may be able to go test optional which is lucky, but getting a strong - 1450+ - SAT or 33+ ACT would be helpful.